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Pinza –
I know you take delight in being contrary but labelling advocates for change as ‘sensitive souls’ and ‘well meaning appeasers’ in a crass attempt to ridicule their views is hardly helpful.
I’m not welcoming ‘this or that’ initiative. I just think that we owe it to the horse not to be unfair. Not to trick them.
Yes, there will always be danger and everyone probably has their own line in the sand in that regard. Mine and I’m sure many others who welcomed todays changes, stops short, far short, of banning jump racing.
Your argument is illogical. It’s like saying that because I want cars to have cleaner fuel emissions I also want the use of vehicles abolished.
I’ll fight Animal Aid and the like tooth and nail where I think they are wrong (and I think they are wrong in most of what they say) but I won’t be isolated by name-calling into accepting positions I personally don’t agree with.
You CAN ask or campaign for changes in the sport which reduce the risk to horses WITHOUT somehow being ‘against’ racing. Ignore Pinza’s argument. It’s ludicruous IMO.
It’s a standard wartime tactic Pinza, take one vantage point at a time. It’s how the game of American Football is played, 10yds at a time. Enough ‘first downs’ and you have the points on the board.
I fear you may be right Pinza, the Grand National is the prized bridgehead being strategised over right now. When they get that, they will go after Cheltenham. And so on …
Until such time as Prestbury Park and Aintree are transformed into great expanses of green tarpaulin market stalls with goods being dispensed from the back of a rusting white F reg transit van, with an annual book fair to break up the monotony.- Total Posts 17716
The word "tarpaulin" is perhaps unfortunate in context – but otherwise I can only wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments,
RD
. Once the appeasers cotton on, it will be too late.
- Total Posts 17716
Corm, I’m sorry to have given offence; but it you really believe that "the welfare of the horse has to come first" in the Grand National, then I think my argument as to the course you need to take (and the racecourse you need to close) is irrefutable.
Your clean cars analogy seems to me to fall down, because as far as I’m aware there isn’t a strong pressure group (supported by the tabloid press and the general public) vociferously proclaiming that cars are
"cruel"
and
"ought to be banned"
.
No-one brought up Animal Aid until Pinza did.
They get their moment in the limelight once a year, whenever the supporters of racing or the participants in racing bring them up, that is true appeasement. Giving them credence where they have none.
Pinza may be correct however, these changes to the national fences could very well be the start of a slippery slope towards the end of National Hunt racing. Though they’ll have to chip chip chip away with more vigour than that before it happens in our lifetime.
Corm, I’m sorry to have given offence; but it you really believe that "the welfare of the horse has to come first" in the Grand National, then I think my argument as to the course you need to take (and the racecourse you need to close) is irrefutable.
The welfare of the horse absolutely needs to come first. Ban National Hunt racing and not just one or two horses die but all of them do.
How come no-one ever makes that argument? If you want horse racing banned then you support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of animals.
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Pinza may be correct however, these changes to the national fences could very well be the start of a slippery slope towards the end of National Hunt racing. Though they’ll have to chip chip chip away with more vigour than that before it happens in our lifetime.
Perhaps, perhaps not. Would you have thought to see NH Racing banned in Australia? It’s happened. And whether or not we’ve noticed it, we’ve been slipping gently and gracefully down that slippery slope for the past fifteen years or so. Not far to go now before momentum takes us right over the edge…
Inevitable I would say …purists will argue the changes will devalue the race beyond the beyond , and who cam blame them !!!
Steeplechasing has given the reasons , I suggest folks read it a few times …its he truth
Pinza can be sensational at times (pot calling kettle …I know )
but I fear there is more than a grain of truth that the CAMPAIGN to abolish NH OR JUMP racing will continue albeit quietly …for me its only a matter of time when jump racing will be sanitised to the point of only allowing soft hurdle obstacles to be jumped
This will be a horror story to all true afficions but in truth we can never have high profile races with multiple horse fatalities , it just wont be accepted , hence the present dumbing down
sad and good in my view
Ricky
- Total Posts 17716
The welfare of the horse absolutely needs to come first. Ban National Hunt racing and not just one or two horses die but all of them do.
How come no-one ever makes that argument? If you want horse racing banned then you support the slaughter of hundreds of thousands of animals.
It’s been made many times on this Forum, and – logical and true though it is – it’s far too sophisticated for the tabloid press to take on board.
In any case there’s a difference: when horse die on the racecourse it is
"the ultimate sacrifice, for our pleasure"
. That makes racing Evil, and us Bad People. When they’re shot because there’s no racing happening any more, they’re not dying for our pleasure, but merely to make us feel guilty – so that’s quite OK for the Puritans’ agenda.
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Pinza can be sensational at times…
That’s one of the nicer things I’ve been called today,
Ricky
! But I must demur in this case – I’m being coldly logical as to what is going on.
Can anybody really believe these people will stop here?
Even the RSPCA are getting uppity again. Give them an inch….
Are you saying Pinza that we don’t make any changes to improve horse welfare (such as the changes made to the fence at Cheltenham)? Should we leave things as they are simply to avoid what you term the chip-chipping even if we believe something is wrong and wants changing? If you are advocating that course then you are the one who will be playing into the hands of the activists.
I’m supporting this particular action re- the National as I believe it is the right thing. Nothing to do with appeasing anyone.
Will the proposed changes actually work though? I’d be surprised if the changes to Becher’s Brook reduce the risk to horses any more than the clearly unsuccessful modifications made in 1989. The problem I think is the combination of the uneven drop and the placing of the fence on the corner, and would need serious reprofiling or relocating the fence away from the corner to sort out.
- Total Posts 17716
Are you saying Pinza that we don’t make any changes to improve horse welfare (such as the changes made to the fence at Cheltenham)? Should we leave things as they are simply to avoid what you term the chip-chipping even if we believe something is wrong and wants changing? If you are advocating that course then you are the one who will be playing into the hands of the activists.
I’m supporting this particular action re- the National as I believe it is the right thing. Nothing to do with appeasing anyone.
We should approve of nothing which is done as a forced concession to pressure from a disgraceful, infantile media which is happily stirring up trouble to serve the turn of those groups seeking to ban NH Racing, beginning with the Grand National.
As far as I’m aware the pressures to change the position of the 2nd last at Cheltenham came from
inside
and not
outside
the sport. I don’t remember any national press campaign about it. Do you accept that this is a major difference?
I’m sorry if you find the term repugnant, but
appeasement
is the only way to describe what’s gone on today, and the cries of
"hallelujah"
from such people as Clare Balding, who (embarrassing though her situation was after the 2011 race) really ought to be wiser than to join the chorus.
- Total Posts 17716
Will the proposed changes actually work though? I’d be surprised if the changes to Becher’s Brook reduce the risk to horses any more than the clearly unsuccessful modifications made in 1989. The problem I think is the combination of the uneven drop and the placing of the fence on the corner, and would need serious reprofiling or relocating the fence away from the corner to sort out.
Removing the fence will be the next move, in five years or so. You heard it predicted here first.
This is a very difficult argument. I agree with Pinza that no matter how much you concede to the Animal Aid people they will always want more.
However, our battle is not with the Animal Aid people, as they will never be convinced, but with the average person in the street. And as they get their opinions from the media then it is the media that we need to get on our side.
In my opinion the changes announced today (and please go to the Aintree website to read them in full, don’t rely on Granada TV) are essentially cosmetic and if they get the media of our back then it will be job done.
Let’s just hope and pray that no more horses are killed next April.
The word "tarpaulin" is perhaps unfortunate in context – but otherwise I can only wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments,
RD
. Once the appeasers cotton on, it will be too late.
That actually never occurred to me when I posted. Oops.
I was thinking of North Weald Airfield at the time, and imagining what Aintree would look like with a control tower and a bank holiday market full of stalls all replicating one another with cheap Chinese bric a brac, and back door butchers offloading rancid legs of lamb at half price.If they keep modifying the race it may as well be renamed:
"The not so grand, becoming a national joke more than a spectacle."
So, we are trying to win round the person in the street who thinks it is a cruel race? So what about all the real racing fans/punters who then find their favourite race has become a complete joke and it turns them off the race/if not the sport as a whole?
Horses will always die in NH and I don’t think the National needs to change one iota. In fact, I think it’s been as emasculated as it can without my
new
title being apposite.
You cannot please all the people all the time. Frankly, why does the racing community need to? The race seems to be doing perfectly well as it is.
If the powers that be decide to tamper further with the National then I am going to start campaigning for bends to be taken out of Formula One races. (not that I watch that sport – bloomin’ boring TBH)
Zip
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