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Sorry, Richard.
I normally agree with you, but that really trivialises the enormity of what happened.
No offence was intended but fair point. I’m not going to give some weaselly ‘sorry if I offended anyone’ apology because they are meaningless but I take your point.
Have to say I do find the song’s use in adverts (plural) recently very bizarre, do the people who come up with these things actually know what it’s about? Surprised the band even cleared it, assuming the rights are still theirs.
As for a UBI, there’s definitely a good case for it. Not least the absolute fortune saved in no longer means testing benefits. I am sure there would still be a benefits system of some description but it would surely be a fraction of the size it is now.
Another idea that will probably be laughed off the forum about the winter fuel payments, how about the ability to reject it? I know some wealthier pensioners send it to charity which is great but at the end of the day it’s still part of the overall benefits bill. How about it’s paid automatically up to a certain point and after that it’s up to you to claim it if you feel you need it (wouldn’t need to be a difficult process). I guess that comes with its own issues like an unpredictable bill for it every year but nobody can say they’re left out.
You say not a difficult process Richard i.e. online through the gov.uk website where those 80+ year olds who probably need it don’t go.
Winter fuel payment gone through
Only one Labour MP vote against it Joe Trickett
This been handled badly by Labour there even a clip of Starmer back in May talking about
Sunak taking away Winter payments and Labour would never do that. Aged badlyWhen you think Ed Miliband send 11.6 billion overseas for climate change crisis
Rachel reeves nightmare clip on LBC where a caller use her quote against her
It been a shambles of a government so far.
Headline the other day in a national newspaper claiming Labour had planned the cut pre-election.
good luck to allI’ve never liked Starmer and shooting himself in the foot seems to confirm my suspicions of him.
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysCriminals released from prison to be met by Lamborghinis and popping champagne corks, while on the same day a Labour government (made up of MPs who can claim for the heating bills on their second homes) votes to take away the winter fuel allowance. No matter how the apologists try to spin it, the optics are not good.
Never mind, on the same day one Labour MP showed she has her finger on the pulse on the issues that matter so much to the voters:
“A sliding scale of benefit would seem wise to me: full payment through, say, reduced rates of 75%, 50%, 25% & zero. Though how those bands would be decided I don’t know”.
—————–Sliding scale is a good idea, Drone.
I’d have thought Council Tax Bands could be used in that exact way.Possibly:
Being either on “Credits” OR living in Bands A, B and C = 100% = £300…
But if not on Credits:
Band D = 67% = £200
Band E = 33% = £100
Band F and more = ZeroValue Is Everything…However, Labour’s reasons for doing this must be questioned.
Labour say they didn’t want to do this but when money is tight they have to get the money from somewhere.
…And then say they want every pensioner who is entitled to Credits to claim Credits.
They can’t have it both ways.
If every pensioner that is entitled to Credits claims Credits, there’d be NO MONEY SAVED.Therefore, to be successful in making money for the Government (the reason for dropping it) actually relies on pensioners NOT getting what they are entitled to.
Also:
If they’ve dropped the Winter Fuel Allowance purely because times are bad…
Have they said that once money is less of a problem for the government – the Winter Fuel Allowance (FOR ALL pensioners) will be reinstated?
Value Is Everything‘Headline the other day in a national newspaper claiming Labour had planned the cut pre-election.’
‘Claiming’. So as usual it’s nonsense that they can’t back up. I bet it was anonymous sources or ‘Downing Street insiders’ who are the usual go-to when papers are making things up.
Funny you should mention council tax Ginger, that’s another system that needs complete and utter reform. My house was built less than a decade ago but my council tax is based on its value in 1991
Your suggestion seems a good idea in principle though. Obviously there will be people who don’t need it living in low band properties but nobody living in a massive house (especially pensioners rattling about in a four bedroom house when there’s mo more than two of them) can complain about losing £300, and keeping the credits rule regardless of band ensures those who are on the lowest incomes get it regardless.
Has anyone crunched the numbers on the net saving/loss if everyone claimed the pension credit they are entitled to versus scrapping the fuel allowance for most? I’d be surprised if there isn’t some saving there, although clearly it would eat into it.
As I said before, something had to change but this has been handled terribly. Perhaps the ‘rabbit out of the hat’ in the budget will be a slight backtrack on it? Still not a great strategy but it would explain the stubbornness.
But on the plus side at least Starmer is showing he’s not afraid of the Mail and the Telegraph (who I didn’t hear complaining when my mortgage went up ten times the amount that most pensioners are losing after the Truss/Kwarteng budget that they cheered to the rafters).
Another point I saw made by Martin Lewis is that if the Government actually want pensioners to claim, then it is stupid to call the benefit/s anything to do with “credit”. Pensioners are a proud people. They are of a generation which associates “Credit” with charity… And many don’t want to claim charity. I agree with Lewis it would’ve been much better to call them “Pension Top Ups”. So if you’re already on Pension Top Ups you get the Winter Fuel Allowance.
Martin Lewis will apparently be seeing Rachael Reeves before the budget. Here’s hoping he can convince her.
Value Is EverythingNo one is going to convince her , vote done and won , as I keep saying this is going to be painful , even more some come the budget , just remember though this is a Tory mess Labour is cleaning up ….
“‘Headline the other day in a national newspaper claiming Labour had planned the cut pre-election.’
‘Claiming’. So as usual it’s nonsense that they can’t back up. I bet it was anonymous sources or ‘Downing Street insiders’ who are the usual go-to when papers are making things up”.
—————–I think the point is Richard, that despite Rachael Reeves claiming recently she did not want to means test the Winter Fuel Allowance away from all but pensioners on Credit benefits…
There’s a 2014 recording of her in the House Of Commoons saying she wants means testing of the Winter Fuel Allowance. (it’s on Facebook).
…And in previous Labour election manifestos they pledged to keep the Winter Fuel Allowance.
…Yet just so happens that pledge was left out of their 2024 manifesto.Funny that.
Value Is Everything“Therefore, to be successful in making money for the Government (the reason for dropping it) actually relies on pensioners NOT getting what they are entitled to”
It’s not about making money GT it’s about been a fair system. Something we definitely haven’t had since 2010.
Martin Lewis normally talks a decent amount of sense but that’s absolute hogwash. If this is the life and death matter that we are told it is, you’ll claim whatever money you’re due regardless of what it’s called. And they say young people are snowflakes…
These dim politicians never seem to understand that The Internet Does Not Forget. There are plenty of other examples on the same subject.
https://x.com/joerichlaw/status/1834349793029865610
All governments use the “It was the previous government’s fault” argument but there is only so long they can get away with that one, assuming they can even get away with it at all. Voters are too savvy to fall for that one nowadays.
Even if you accept the government had to make cuts, it was its own choice to cut the winter fuel allowance for pensioners. There are plenty of other ways it could have made savings.
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