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Ah, but if Brown had won that election there would have been no Brexit, which has had a far more devastating impact on the UK economy than any of the events you mention. A report by Cambridge Econometrics has given an estimated loss of £140 billion (as of Jan ’24) with an economic output of 6% less than if the UK had remained in the EU. Our politicians (and of course those who voted Leave) don’t like to be reminded of these uncomfortable facts.
The elephant in the room. But we’re not supposed to say that those who voted for it fell for a pack of lies….
Absolutely spot on Moe. I said it before, all these angry thickheads on question time
who would spout “Don’t tell me I don’t know what I’m voting for, I know exactly what
I’m voting for” A year later and Brexit still was a can of worms and nobody knew what
way it was going to go and more in particular, how it was going to effect us.It’s the worst single decision made by a government, created by underhand bullshit
which too many people fell for. Independance for Scotland, was the only way the Scots
would get back into the EU. That won’t happen im my lifetime now, if at all. At least
the tories are out, lets give Keir some time before we decide if he has any idea how
to right the ship.LOL
The UK people hadn’t had a vote on the EU since the 1970’s and what the “EU” was had changed massively since we joined the “Common Market”. A referendum was overdue whether we liked the outcome or not. So it is surely only right the UK population should’ve had a vote. Just like the people of Scotland deserve an independence referendum once every 30+ years. Or should we not have any Referendums? Leave everything to the politicians?
A reminder…
The Conservative leader David Cameron was a Remainer.
Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his Loony Left pals refused to stand on the same Remainer platform as Cameron… And from everything he said prior to the Referendum debate everyone knew Corbyn was a Leaver anyway. Some people asked why they voted? Said they wouldn’t vote for anything the Conservative leader wanted.The UK voted with the Labour leader and against the Conservative Prime Minister and an anti-establishment vote.
The difference between the numbers of Leave and Remain votes was very slim and Corbyn probably made the difference between Brexit and No Brexit.
Value Is Everything“Ah, but if Brown had won that election there would have been no Brexit, which has had a far more devastating impact on the UK economy than any of the events you mention. A report by Cambridge Econometrics has given an estimated loss of £140 billion (as of Jan ’24) with an economic output of 6% less than if the UK had remained in the EU. Our politicians (and of course those who voted Leave) don’t like to be reminded of these uncomfortable facts”.
———————————————————–Highflyer,
Do you know who commissioned that Cambridge Econometrics report?
Labour Mayor Sadiq Khan. One of the strongest opponents of all things Brexit, both before and after the vote. So a report is commissioned… Which just happens to come up with the same conclusions the person who commissioned the report was talking about – both before the referendum and before Brexit negotiations were finished.These things you mention as “uncomfortable facts” are only an opinion.
An opinion which many economists disagree with.We can only judge by comparing ourselves with other similar countries:
If Brexit has meant “an estimated loss of £140 billion (as of Jan ’24) with an economic output of 6% less than if the UK had remained in the EU” we should be a long way below France and Germany right now… Then why are we still in a similar economic place to France?… And Germany is in recession! Did the last Tory government do such an outstanding job to be up with the best of the EU countries, despite the loss of so many billions to Brexit?I am no Brexiteer, I voted Remain. But the Remain campaign wasn’t any better.
People like Osbourne and Khan claimed London’s Financial Services sector and Stock Market would crumble to nothing under Brexit… And would lose out to Frankfurt, Germany. Yet the Global Financial Centres Index (in March 2024) still rates London as second to only New York in competitiveness. With Frankfurt 13th in the World.
…And they – including Sadiq Khan claimed the UK would lose millions of jobs by coming out of the EU. Yet the UK’s unemployment figure of 4.9% is lower than the EU as a whole 6%, as well as being lower than comparative countries like France 7%.
Well Moehat, on Referendum day I “fell for” the Remain “pack of lies”. Or at least thought they were a distinct possibility. But right now Brexiteers would look justified if calling that campaign “scaremongering”… And Sadiq Khan’s report – sorry – the “Cambridge Econometrics Report” seems to carry on in the same manner.Value Is EverythingPersonally, I suspect Brexit will hinder the Uk’s economic growth, but not nearly as much as this Cambridge Report suggests… And we need independence anyway, it’s not all about money. eg England has a lot more people per mile than France and many other European countries too. Yes, immigration helps the UK financially and particularly with the NHS and Social care. But it needs to be reduced at some point – best start now. We don’t have the room. The Gingerbuilder in Labour’s cabinet might want to put houses on the green / “grey” belt. But in years to come, if we’re not careful we’ll eventually need to concrete over the bloody Lake District to house everyone… And I hate to break it to you – immigrants get old too.
Value Is EverythingSo, how many of those amazing trade deals actually materialised? And what has happened to our fishing industry that everyone seemed to think was so important to the countries finances? My neighbour is selling his garage because import costs have gone up so much since Brexit. Having said that it wouldn’t surprise me to find that he voted leave but I’m not going to ask him!
Has the cost of importing breeze blocks and roofing felt gone up so much, it is now worth selling our own garages? Well who’d have thought.
Thanks for the tip, Moehat.
I’ll put my garage up for sale tomorrow.
Value Is EverythingAt the time of Brexit the EU was seen as increasingly federalist.
Verhofstadt’s vision of a “European Empire” (and as such – more power going from each individual sovereign country to Europe) was undoubtedly a major player in many voting leave. Verhofstadt someone else you can blame for Brexit.
Since then Europe has seen the UK leave and had other countries on the brink of doing so. In particular France and Netherlands. So as a result the EU has become less Federalist in order to hold the EU together… And Verhofstadt has announced his retirement from politics.
The EU should thank the UK for saving them from themselves.
Value Is EverythingBut they said lots of other countries would leave after we did. However they all saw how stupid we were and decided not to. Anyone would think we didn’t have any sort of say in how the EU was ran, which is what the ‘take back control’ lot led everyone to believe. Anyway it was mainly based on a dislike of ‘furriners’ imo which is funny because instead of people coming here from Europe to work I think ( I need to check) they’re mainly coming from Nigeria and India and the numbers haven’t dropped. We need immigrants because we’re an ageing population. When we see what Putin is capable of it’s vitally important that Europe is seen to be united. Especially if America votes for ‘put America first’Trump angain Imo.
It isn’t really funny that my friend has had to give up his garage especially as he’s struggled to keep it going post Brexit. It was his livelihood.
Putin has his hands full with Ukraine invading Russia, likewise Trump with Kamala (she’s ahead in the poles). I think it was a mistake to join the EU in the first place.
The best things in life are free.
But you can give them to the birds and bees.Apologies to your neighbour, Moehat.
But my point is, what type of “garage” are we talking about here?
One that sells cars?
Fuel?
Food too?
Two of the above?
All three?
Or a Lock up garage that stores an import and export business – like Arthur Daley / George Cole / Minder? Value Is Everything“But they said lots of other countries would leave after we did. However they all saw how stupid we were and decided not to”.
The point is that after the UK left, the EU saw their increasingly Federalist agenda (what Verhofstadt called a “European Empire” eventually with a European Prime Minister) was putting many countries off (Netherlands, France, Greece, Italy). So they’ve reversed that trend which has so far worked in keeping the rest of the EU together.
“Anyone would think we didn’t have any sort of say in how the EU was ran, which is what the ‘take back control’ lot led everyone to believe”.
We didn’t have enough say, Germany dominated too much. Again, although Germany is still the main player it is not seen to the same degree now. And the UK is the UK anyway, it should do what the UK wants (cue BigG).
Anyway it was mainly based on a dislike of ‘furriners’ imo which is funny because instead of people coming here from Europe to work I think ( I need to check) they’re mainly coming from Nigeria and India and the numbers haven’t dropped. We need immigrants because we’re an ageing population.
Sorry, but that just suggests you don’t really get it. It is not the colour of skin that is of concern. Fact is over recent times there have been more immigrants coming to the UK than at any time in our history. At a rate where it is impossible for them all to integrate. For Muslims in particular this is of greater concern for obvious reasons. But also many Europeans tend to congregate in the same areas. If when walking through your neighbourhood the primary language heard is not English – is that really what we want for Britain? Integration is key and (I wish it was different) when English is not the main language spoken it just proves integration hasn’t worked. And there is no room. We don’t have the houses for our own population. If we bring in more and more immigrants to care for our “ageing population” then where does that end? Increasing the population just because we have an ageing population in itself means we will always have an ageing population. Immigrants get old too. And so we will always need more and more immigrants. Surely it is better to pay care workers enough so it becomes an occupation that British people (And just in case of any confusion by “British” I mean not just white, but of all colours) actually want to take up? Instead of using immigrants which helps keep wages artificially low and in turn puts off British care workers.
“When we see what Putin is capable of it’s vitally important that Europe is seen to be united. Especially if America votes for ‘put America first’Trump angain Imo”.
So we must do whatever the EU wants us to do – about anything, immigration, fish, EU law, green issues -all because we must all be united against Putin? Surely we can have a grown up alliance with the EU on Putin? Are you suggesting a non-NATO European Army – like Verhofstadt wants? It is actually the UK that has led the way in supporting Ukraine… And the EU itself is not united. Germany for one is lagging behind and the eastern European countries naturally want more spent against Putin… And it works both ways… If we were in the EU and the EU said we should send less to Ukraine; you’d agree to that for the sake of being “united”?
Value Is EverythingA couple of things I should like to point out.
First of all the EU hasn’t given up on it’s ‘Federal States of Europe’ as it’s written in the very heart of their treaties for ‘ever greater integration’ ,on seeing the opposition it generated the EU merely keeps quiet as it’s done about the real reasons behind the introduction of the euro currency.
Since first joining the ‘common market’ as it was described back then the UK’s trade with Europe has declined and increased with the rest of the world.The Organisation for Economic Co-Operation and Development (OECD) says the EU has a declining world market share and will continue to decline in the future.
good luck to all
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