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Agree Glad. I can just about remember beer being delivered to some local pubs by horse drawn carts from the local brewery. That sort of thing has almost completely disappeared now and has naturally changed the way we perceive horses.
I cannot find it to link to it but I do remember reading an article a few years ago by Kevin Blake on this subject. He remarked upon the different reaction to equine fatalities between British and Irish crowds. Blake suggested that Ireland, being a more rural country where agriculture is a much larger part of the economy, has a less sentimental attitude.
I think he was certainly right then. However, Ireland is starting to become more urban and less traditional and it will be interesting to see if the attitude changes over time.
Ireland definitely has a different attitude.
Many treat horses the same way we treat used cars.
Tbh, Gordon Elliott and those around him probably regarded sitting on a dead horse the same way we might regard sitting on the bonnet of a car which had just been declared a write off and was about to be towed away to a breaker’s yard.
We might not like it, but it’s part of their culture.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Agree ID. I cannot accept the ground was any sort of issue yesterday. The falls could have happened on any ground, as could the injury sustained by the unfortunate Discorama.
If we lived in a sensible world, we would restore the old National fences, go back to how the race used to be and start breeding the good, old fashioned sturdy chasers mentioned earlier in the thread!
100%.
Two dead when Mr Frisk clocked a time 17 seconds faster in 1990 over almost 800 yards further in 1990 yet also two dead on the Heavy in 1989.
And one dead and could easily have been more on watered ground over modified fences and a shorter trip 32 years later.
None of these “safety measures” has made the slightest difference – in fact, there’s less respect for the fences and they don’t hunt round on the first circuit the way they used to.
And the horses are more speedily-bred generally and more fragile.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“There’s less respect for the fences and they don’t hunt round on the first circuit the way they used to.”
That is my main problem with the modern race. As I said earlier, I would not go as far as using the title of the thread to describe it but I do not particularly enjoy the first circuit of the race nowadays. It has become an all out, galloping stamina test. The strategy of hunting around on the first circuit has gone. As have the days when horses that were effective at shorter distances had a chance.
The Becher Chase is arguably better to watch. Not as many horses and they go a more sensible gallop on the softer ground. It means it is a totally different race to the National.
Unfortunately it also means it is a very poor trial for a race run on better ground at a faster tempo in April. Snow Leopardess was the latest to prove that theory. She had no chance yesterday.
Agreed – I’ve been saying for years.
The Grand National used to be a 4m4f Chase mainly won by 3m Park course chasers, 2m4f chaser Gay Trip even won it one year.
Why?
After a bit of jockeying for position going to the first, they hunted round the first circuit.
You got the odd tearaway like Crisp, but they were the exception, not the rule.
But now it’s an end-to-end gallop both circuits, shorter race but ultimately a greater test of stamina.
And nothing below OR140 ever gets into the race any more.
We now have a 4m2f race run at breakneck speed over quasi brush hurdles with spruce laid on top of them that no one respects.
All of these things bring their own new hazards.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Excellent posts on this thread.
Along with the already mentioned breeding issues, creating more fragile horses, the use of corticosteroids can lead to fractures, I’ve seen Dr Richard Newland mention this in articles a couple of times, but not sure if BHA or any other racing industry organisations have commissioned any studies into this.
It seems there are more horses suffering catastrophic injuries on the flat in recent years, but that may just be my perception.“It seems there are more horses suffering catastrophic injuries on the flat in recent years, but that may just be my perception.”
I think it is true. When I first started watching Flat racing seriously about 35 years ago, I seldom saw a catastrophic injury. Now I am convinced they are more commonplace.
I believe this is due to in breeding, some stallions covering too many mares and too much emphasis on speed.
I think this is the most fundamental issue facing racing and in the long run is far more likely to be damaging to the sport than a few horses falling in a steeplechase, which is not exactly unexpected!
The soft cores replaced the timber pallisades for the Becher Chase in 2012 and were used for the National thereafter, as were the run-off catch pens for loose horses I think. In the decade from 2013 onwards, 3 horses have died; in the decade prior to that, 9:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equine_fatalities_in_the_Grand_National
Spinal fractures and injuries incurred whilst running loose feature a lot in that list pre-2013. I agree with you about less respect for the fences mind you. I think the spruce should be stacked nearly a foot higher than it is (except for the Canal Turn) to make horses and jockeys both be inclined to take a pull over the first few.
Was just about to post the same link Green. No fatalities from falls since the changes. One tragically was brought down, the other two pulled up. Three in the last four years though after 7 years without one may mean another review is required, although I’m sure they probably are constantly reviewing the race to make it even safer.
“And nothing below OR140 ever gets into the race any more.”
Surely that’s a good thing. Better horses surely means more chance of survival and a better quality race.
I don’t see the correlation – plenty of quality horses fall and get killed, Alverton for example.
I wasn’t saying it was a “bad” thing – more using it to illustrate that’s it better horses going faster over less respected obstacles nowadays.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Superb debate throughout the thread from excellent contributors, well said guys.
Bar the OP, sorry exRuby you started a great thread but you’re way off.
“Ireland definitely has a different attitude.
Many treat horses the same way we treat used cars”
“We might not like it, but it’s part of their culture.”
Careful, now. Bit of xenophobia showing there. Some, certainly, but not “many” I wouldn’t have thought. Ruby Walsh and Mick Fitz were shocked at the dead horse photo. Can you imagine Willie Mullins or Henry de Bromhead or Joseph O’Brien or Jessica Harrington or John Ryan sitting on a dead horse clowning about? There might be some ignorant vulgarians about but it isn’t part of the culture.
Of course it’s not xenophobia.
I didn’t say it was ALL Irish people either.
I was picking up on a point someone else (though you chose to target me instead) made that in some rural parts of Ireland horses are regarded as work animals and labour commodities the same way they might regard a tractor.
I’m sure there’s an element of it in rural Britain too.
“Xenophobia” – please!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"To go off on a tangent.
After all the papers featured the race on their front pages yesterday(although for some it was just the £1 free bet guff) the only one I have seen feature it today is the Telegraph.
And their headline?
“Friend of Cambridges storms to victory”
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