Home › Forums › Big Races – Discussion › Japan Cup 2017
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November 17, 2017 at 08:27 #1327040
Idaho arrived safely yesterday to complete the quartet of visiting runners:
http://japanracing.jp/_news2017/171117-04.html
stats and trends for the race:
http://japanracing.jp/_news2017/171116-02.html
JRA handicapper on the home contenders:
November 19, 2017 at 14:57 #1327626interesting to see whether Yutaka Take will keep the ride on last year’s winner Kitasan Black.
obviously would like to:
new merchandise just released:
http://www.sunrisepro.net/ss/and that horse is reponsible for all his G1s in 2016 and 2017:
http://www.yutaka-take.com/record/g1_victory_all/but he lost to Ryan the ride on Air Spinel in the G1 today, and rode only two races this weekend after none last weekend, following damage to his knee-ligaments in a training incident 10 days ago:
November 21, 2017 at 14:10 #1327906JRA preview now up:
…300 million yen [GBP 2.02m] going to the winner of the 37th running of the 2,400-meter turf event.
The Japan Cup was originally started largely in an effort to help raise the level of Japanese racing and it, together with many other efforts by Japan’s horsemen, now sees Japan compete highly competitively on an international level. In fact, the past 11 Japan Cup winners have come from the home team and, in the past 10 runnings, Japanese runners have managed to sweep the top three spots. This year, only four horses – Guignol and Japan Cup repeater Iquitos from Germany, Idaho from Ireland, and Caulfield Cup winner Boom Time from Australia – are here to try to loosen the iron grip Japanese horses have maintained on the Japan Cup. Scheduled riders for the overseas raiders are Filip Minarik, Daniele Porcu, Ryan Moore, and Cory Parish.
Not only is the competition formidable as seen from abroad, many at home are reluctant to take on what is often one of the toughest lineups of the year. Only 19 horses, including the four invitees from abroad, were nominated for the race and, now with the withdrawal of Tante Alegria last week, all will gain a berth. Those 18 will include three Japanese Derby winners and two double Grade 1 winners in addition to the field’s standout – Kitasan Black, winner of last year’s Japan Cup. The pride of singer Saburo Kitajima is aiming for his seventh Grade 1 victory and currently tops the lot for earnings with 712 million yen to his name.
The Tokyo 2,400 meters is also the venue for two of the 3-year-old classics – the Tokyo Yushun (Japanese Derby) and Yushun Himba (Japanese Oaks). The race starts before the grandstand at the top of the slope and continues 350 meters to the first turn. The course is known for its lengthy 525-meter stretch, a final push home that has, for many a jockey, seemingly “lasted forever.”
Though early times are often slow, a good deal of early speed in the race often picks up the pace considerably. Wire-to-wire wins like Kitasan Black’s last year are rare. The draw is considered fair across the field.
The Japan Cup is the 11th and final race on the Sunday card at Tokyo Racecourse. Post time is 15:40 local time. Here’s a look at some of the expected top choices…..
November 21, 2017 at 14:37 #1327907Good previews as usual Wit, I’ll be up at that time with mutt on Sunday, so I’ll give it a watch, and have a couple of bets for interest.
I’ll chance Rainbow Line at 25’s, and an even smaller each way on Boom Time at 66’s.
November 21, 2017 at 18:28 #1327939Nobody’s tempted by the 25/1 about Idaho it seems. When you consider his terrible record outside of Britain & Ireland I suppose it’s not hard to understand why.
November 22, 2017 at 10:50 #1327999Nobody’s tempted by the 25/1 about Idaho it seems. When you consider his terrible record outside of Britain & Ireland I suppose it’s not hard to understand why.
Can probably wait for the Japanese odds. Last year the foreigners Nightflower went off at 36-1, Erupt 39-1 and Iquitos at an insane 135-1. He ran on for a four length beaten 7th. *cry* I´ll probably have a little on Iquitos/Guignol again. 7th in the Arc must be worth a try at 50-1.
November 23, 2017 at 11:46 #1328159first edition of 14 page pdf racecard for HKJC simulcast of the race downloadable here (second edition will add expert comment and tipsters):
http://racing.hkjc.com/racing/overseas/english/racecard.aspx?para=/20171126/S1/1
joint press conference by visitors:
http://japanracing.jp/_news2017/171123-04.html
comments from leading locals:
http://japanracing.jp/_news2017/171123-02.html
Mirco Demuro is on Satono Crown for Ryan’s Japanese sponsor, Hori-san. Wonder if, given a totally free choice, Ryan would swap……
tidbit: Kitasan Black is owned (through a corporation) by a Japanese Des O’Connor-type figure, celebrating this year 55 years in showbiz:
http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/product/CRZN-36?s_ssid=e4255b5a1712d35365
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabur%C5%8D_Kitajima
first part of the horse’s name refers to his owner – Kita-san (Mr Kitajima). second part refers to his sire Black Tide, a full brother to Deep Impact.
November 24, 2017 at 04:34 #1328251I´ll have a little e/w on Guignol (on race day) and Soul Stirring (20-1). Guignol is a frontrunner and drawn well in #3. I have no idea what they are doing with Soul Stirring running her over a 1m-1m1 all the time, when her breeding and runs clearly suggest she needs 1m4. Would probably handle even further. Second time she´ll run over 1m4, the other being her Japanese Oaks win.
November 24, 2017 at 12:55 #1328275JRA Tote odds currently:
Kitasan Black (Take) 1.8
Rey de Oro (Lemaire) 2.8
Satono Crown (Mirco) 9.1
…..
Idaho (Ryan) 116http://japanracing.jp/en/racing/result/
If GB punters can bet direct into HKJC pools thru high street bookies, and that includes simulcast pools, then HKJC tote odds may also be of interest once they start up:
http://bet.hkjc.com/default.aspx?url=/racing/pages/odds_wp.aspx&lang=en&dv=overseas
HK expert column (Naohiro Goto):
How much does the G1 Tenno Sho Autumn cost on the runners who fought it out on the bottomless ground? It is very important factor to cogitate about, when we try to predict this year’s G1 Japan Cup winner.
We had very wet days in Japan in October and torrential rain made the track at Tokyo like rice field. While the official going on the day of the Tenno Sho Autumn at Tokyo on 29th October was listed as soft, it was certainly worse than that, because many jockeys described it as “the worst ground I have ever experienced in my entire life” and the winning time, 2 minutes 8.3 seconds, is 12.2 seconds slower than the track record. As it was actually the war of attrition, I am worried it might cost too much on the runners, including KITASAN BLACK, winner of the Tenno Sho Autumn, who is arguably the best horse in training in Japan.
Although the directional properties are opposite, many of us remind the G1 Tenno Sho Spring at Kyoto in April, which was also very tough race, as the pace was furiously strong and new track record was established. As the result, the runners were really worn out and they could not perform well in next start, for example KITASAN BLACK, winner of the Tenno Sho Spring, was beaten ninth in next start, the G1 Takarazuka Kinen. No one could believe their eyes when they saw KITASAN BLACK ran so poorly, as he got the reputation for being a very consistent athlete.
KITASAN BLACK was breezed for the first time since the Tenno Sho Autumn on 15th November, 11 days before the Japan Cup. As it is usual that Hisashi Shimizu, who trains KITASAN BLACK, gives the first breeze for the major race on 17 or 18 days before the race day, Shimizu needed to give longer time for KITASAN BLACK to recover from the tough task in the Tenno Sho Autumn.
And SATONO ALADDIN, winner of the G1 Yasuda Kinen in June, was disappointing twelfth in the G1 Mile Championship last weekend. In fact, his previous start was the Tenno Sho Autumn.
From those facts, I don’t regard KITASAN BLACK highly, selecting him as my fifth choice for the Japan Cup.
My first choice is REY DE ORO, the 3YO G1 Japanese Derby winner. It is obvious that the standard of current 3YO crop in Japan is high. SUAVE RICHARD, second finisher in the G1 Japanese Derby, won the G2 Copa Republica Argentina on 5th November easily beating older horses. The G1 Queen Elizabeth II Cup for 3YO and upwards fillies and mares on 12th November was won by MOZU KATCHAN, a 3YO filly. And the G1 Mile Championship for 3YO and upwards on 19th November was won by PERSIAN KNIGHT, a 3YO colt. Those results could be the proof that REY DE ORO is competitive in the quality field of the Japan Cup.
My second choice is CHEVAL GRAND, who finished good third in the Japan Cup last year. I regard this performance highly, because he came from too far back, while there was no pace. And it is encouraging factor that Hugh Bowman, one of best Australian jockeys, is booked for CHEVAL GRAND.
As five out of last ten running of the Japan Cup were won by fillies or mares, I think I should not ignore SOUL STIRRING, the 3YO G1 Japanese Oaks winner, who is my third choice.
And I think SOUNDS OF EARTH, who ran second in the Japan Cup last year, is a forgotten horse and is my fourth choice.
SELECTIONS: 2. REY DE ORO, 1. CHEVAL GRAND, 8. SOUL STIRRING, 5. SOUNDS OF EARTH & 4. KITASAN BLACK
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Pete2014,
Idaho’s assistant trainer said today regarding the draw: “…… if you see the turf it’s obvious that nobody wants to go on the rail because it’s all chewed up, so we’re actually in the best ground going forward….”
November 24, 2017 at 18:17 #1328321Yeah I think another trainer said something similar, but does that change anything? It just shifts out the field to an invisible rail. I don´t see how that helps the badly drawn horses. You seem to be better informed than me, so when is the last time a horse won the Japan Cup from a very wide draw? All the favourites are drawn on the inside, too. I just don´t think Idaho has the class after a long and hard season to beat fresh well drawn top class local horses. Of course if he´s hitting triple digits odds, he might be worth a flyer just like Iquitos and Guignol (who are drawn well). It seems the European raiders are generally overpriced, unless it´s a monster like Danedream, but even she could only manage 6th from a horrible draw.
November 24, 2017 at 20:58 #1328369the draws of the 1-2-3 in the past few Japan Cups were:
1-12-17 (2016)
15-6-1 (2015)
4-1-15 (2014)
7-9-5 (2013)
15-17-13 (2012)
2-16-1 (2011)
6-16-2 (2010)the full listings for the 36 years are here:
http://jra.jp/datafile/seiseki/g1/jc/index.html
Japanese only (despite the ENG link at the top), but easy enough – just click the bright blue link before PLAY for the relevant year, then scroll down to the result.
The draw is the number in the third column (in this case the Japanese reads left-to-right like the UK), just after the column with the coloured tote numbers.
November 25, 2017 at 08:09 #1328456Ryan won on 6 of his 8 rides at Tokyo today.
Idaho currently down to 76 on JRA tote, 28 on HKJC tote.
November 25, 2017 at 08:16 #1328460My pair are drifting badly Wit, but I’m going to stand by them. I might just add Idaho to a Tricast.
November 25, 2017 at 09:53 #1328477one of Ryan’s wins today was the 7th race over the Turf 2400m Japan Cup course.
draws of the 1-2-3 in that race were 4-14-10.
going reported as firm. unfortunately no video available to see what happened when “chewed-up inner” met firm ground.
JRA card downloadable here, but very spartan compared to the HKJC version:
November 25, 2017 at 10:33 #1328493good work wit
November 26, 2017 at 06:52 #1328757Great call wit.
1-2-4
Cheval Grand
Rey De Oro
Kitasan BlackThey pulled miles clear of the rest. Idaho a credible 5th.
November 26, 2017 at 07:30 #1328760thanks Pete, but to be fair, that was the HKJC expert, not me !
so specially importing Hugh Bowman from Australia worked out, with he and Lemaire running down Take’s attempt to repeat last year’s all-the-way lead.
full result here at JRA:
http://japanracing.jp/en/racing/result/
and with video replay link here from HKJC (if error message appears on black screen, just hover cursor bottom right of that screen and click the grey Standard button that appears):
http://racing.hkjc.com/racing/overseas/english/results.aspx?para=/20171126/S1/1
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