2015 Cheltenham Gold Cup

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This topic contains 186 replies, has 47 voices, and was last updated by  stilvi 4 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #831085

    honeysdad
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    And to think he started the season being withdrawn by a vet ..much to connections disgust

    #831114
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5646

    Although I’d had a small consolation bet on Coneygree after Newbury, I’d never say I fancied him and thought him awful value today. I hate getting the championship races so badly wrong, and I thought Many Clouds would win that, and that Bobs Worth would have done much better. I also fancied Sam Winner to run a race, so appalling calls from me. And I ended up screaming on Djakadam because I’d stuck him in one of those daft fiver accumulators, and the other three had won. All in all, a dreadful Gold Cup for me. The only saving grace is that, with Holywell’s performance, my @ass is safe from the view of TAPK

    I suppose that’s worth a lot, really!

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #831115
    peter .h
    peter .h
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    And to think he started the season being withdrawn by a vet ..much to connections disgust

    I was just thinking about that! It’s a long way to go from there to where they’ve come. I remember reading a quote from the Bradstock’s saying he was ‘The best we have ever had’ and thought to myself ‘oh he’ll probably place in a Hennessy one day or something…’ I was excruciatingly wrong!

    I also feel rather fooling for fobbing off his Feltham win as ‘luck’ rather than ability. Even when i was on him i didn’t give him the credit he deserved!

    He showed me. And how. Terrific stuff.

    #831116

    homersimpson
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    A brilliant front running performance. Hopefully, as he has been lightly raced there are a few more big races in him, although we have seen before a Gold Cup win can massively affect a horse the season after and are never the same again. A great decision from the Bradstock team to run him this year as next year could be one of the toughest ever if all potential horses turn up in A1 condition :good:

    #831137
    Zamorston
    Zamorston
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    I’ve known for ages the potential of this horse….I’ve talked him up at every available opportunity, both on here and other places I discuss racing…

    I always loved him as a hurdler and just knew he would make a top, top chaser, just love his style of running…

    Aswell as the vet episode, just look how far he’s come in terms of performances! On his comeback run he had Dell Arca ranging up alongside looking like he would go past him easily but he fought back to win going away. His next two wins, although questioned by many were absolutely tremendous performances on the clock, two very, very good times for a novice, and again today the time was phenomenal.

    I just hope and pray he comes out of that gruelling test today well and we see him winning top races for years to come…I still think he’s got a fair bit more improvement in him yet, it certainly looks that way to me anyway on his performances….an outstanding chaser…a joy to watch!

    #831153

    homersimpson
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    • Total Posts 2073

    That is my big worry. A Denman-esque performance as rivals fell away one by one. Just hope that due to been lightly raced he will come out of this none the worse.

    #831156
    patriot1
    patriot1
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    I hope they put Coneygree away for the season now as that must have taken a lot out of him. It will be interesting to see his schedule for next year. Definitely the King George but would Haydock be a bit tight for his style of running.

    And if they’re both fit and well do you think Mullins and Ricci would run both Djakadam and Vautour in next year’s Gold Cup?

    #831162
    The Young Fella
    The Young Fella
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    • Total Posts 2078

    What a wonderful horse. I am quite a softly spoken guy, but was yelling so loud for Coneygree. All the nonsense about Gloria Victis, Houblon Des Obeaux and novices can be disregarded now. That was superb – the sort of exuberant daredevil performance that Gloria Victis himself produced to initially hook me on racing.

    I agree that Coneygree should be put away for the season now. It would leave a sour taste if he turned up half-cooked on quick ground at Aintree or Leopardstown, especially if he did himself an injury. As to next year, I’m just hoping that Coneygree manages to stay sound through the summer and his pre-training. From there, I’d love to see him take a crack some of the big handicaps like the Hennessy or Racing Post Chase, plus the King George.

    Something to note for next year’s Gold Cup (if Coneygree gets his conditions) is that you need to travel to stay in the race with him. Don Poli usually needs niggling, which would not be ideal for holding a dangerous position. Placed horses Djakadam, Road To Riches and Holywell all travelled sweetly this year, while the grinders and overkeen horses were all well stuffed.

    Still, would you take 2/1 that Coneygree stays sound AND gets suitable ground in next year’s Gold Cup?

    #831184
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5646

    I wouldn’t worry so much about his soundness. My concern would be that this all-out give-everything in every race must burn a horse out. It was one of the reasons I was cagey about him after Newbury. I’ve yet to see a horse that can continue putting up these gut-wrenching runs, and his half-brother, Carruthers had that same gung-ho style at the start of his career and, I think, burned himself out.

    I’d put him away now until well into next season and hope for the best. I take the point about the grinders struggling, but I think Don Poli does just what he has to do, and I think Vautour is a creature from another planet.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #831190
    Zamorston
    Zamorston
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    Hoping to get the ground he likes again is obviously the big thing that would hold you back regarding next year…I had a little go yesterday a 20/1 for next year anticipating a good run today….as I say though it’s more in hope thn anything else….
    t
    If you could guarantee now that it would be soft ground next year I would have him as favourite…..I’m absolutely convinced he would have beaten Don Poli in the RSA…..Kings Palace poor mistakes let Don come back into the race on the bridle after briefly being nudged a few times….he also wasnt the best at a couple, whereas Coneygree jumps brilliantly….I just cant see any way how he would have gone past Coneygree on what we saw today….

    Vautour is different in my eyes, because he put up he performance of the week up to today (for me)….maybe best to many others….Vautour needs to prove he can travel and jump that well over a Gold Cup trip though with others putting pressure on, breathing down his neck the whole way….Coneygree proved that he is up to it today, and for me will keep on improving…

    If all the fancied horses so far do make it next year though it could be an absoulute classic…

    #831219
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 25856

    I wouldn’t worry so much about his soundness. My concern would be that this all-out give-everything in every race must burn a horse out. It was one of the reasons I was cagey about him after Newbury. I’ve yet to see a horse that can continue putting up these gut-wrenching runs, and his half-brother, Carruthers had that same gung-ho style at the start of his career and, I think, burned himself out.

    I’d put him away now until well into next season and hope for the best. I take the point about the grinders struggling, but I think Don Poli does just what he has to do, and I think Vautour is a creature from another planet.

    Carruthers was temperamental from an early stage in his chasing career Joe. Could give up if taken on.

    Coneygree reminds me a lot of the way Desert Orchid did things. And he went on for ages Joe. I don’t see the difference how a horse runs, they’re equally likely to get “burned out”. Possibly people don’t notice so much when non-front runners lose their enthusiasm because they’re only one of many and back in the field. When a front runner loses its enthusiasm it’s noticed.

    However, Coneygree is an eight year old, therefore has limited time at the top. He’s also had injuries in the past, so like any horse (front-runner or held up) who’s been fragile in the past – there’s a danger of a returning problem.

    Time of the Gold Cup puts a question mark against official ground conditions on the Chase course today. Racing Post say “Slow by 5.5 seconds”. Even with top class racehorses you’d expect a slower time at this distance on “Soft, good-soft in places” imo. More like an exceptional time on Good-Soft.

    imo All of last three starts were not run on ground as soft as the official going report. I think Coneygree will be effective on “Good” ground; although has a bit of a rounded action so may not be able to take much racing on that surface.

    value is everything
    #831226
    Zamorston
    Zamorston
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    • Total Posts 1101

    A quick time comparison with last year shows it was some perfomance!

    Ran 2 seconds quicker than last year on slower ground….

    Comparing times of all other races on this day as opposed to last says it was a cracking time as it was the only time that was quicker…the rest were anything from 7 to 15 seconds slower than on this day last year!

    Never really been big into race times but the three he has run in his last 3 races suggest he’s a bit good…

    #831239
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 8281

    Although I’d had a small consolation bet on Coneygree after Newbury, I’d never say I fancied him and thought him awful value today. I hate getting the championship races so badly wrong, and I thought Many Clouds would win that, and that Bobs Worth would have done much better. I also fancied Sam Winner to run a race, so appalling calls from me. And I ended up screaming on Djakadam because I’d stuck him in one of those daft fiver accumulators, and the other three had won. All in all, a dreadful Gold Cup for me. The only saving grace is that, with Holywell’s performance, my @ass is safe from the view of TAPK

    I suppose that’s worth a lot, really!

    I didn’t see him as value either Joe, so you are not alone there.

    I was the opposite with Bobs Worth, because I had labelled him Sideshow Bob after his Lexus effort. Nicky says he doesn’t go on the soft but I don’t think it was that soft today and the fact of the matter is that Bobs Worth won his Gold Cup in a time of 7m 4.9s compared to 6m 42.7s clocked by today’s winner so I just can’t see where you could argue that the ground has done him in.

    Many Clouds, like Coneygree had form with Houblon Des Obeaux, who finished last of the 11 who completed today. Both horses increased their margin of superiority over Houblon today, but much more so in the case of the winner, who handed out a 42 length beating on this occasion, compared to the 7 lengths he had beaten him in The Denman chase. Even if we say Houblon has run poorly, Coneygree has made a lot more of that fact than Many Clouds did today. I always saw Many Clouds as more of a Grand National type and hope he runs there after this tough race.

    Silviniaco Conti hasn’t run to the expectations of his highest rating in the field. Probably Cheltenham isn’t his track and he was never allowed to dominate the way he has in some of his races on soft ground. His Charlie Hall effort was put down to a combination of being short of fitness and the faster conditions, perhaps Kempton in true mud is his forte.

    Lord Windermere’s connections said they felt the ground had gone against their horse but the fact is that this year’s race was faster than that of last year by two seconds. I strongly suspect he was simply a fluke winner.

    Road To Riches was a long range punt for me at huge odds in The King George, he went to the Lexus instead but his performance today makes me wonder what would have been had he headed to Kempton. He has beaten the King George winner today, and the form line through Many Clouds and Dynaste, who was runner up in the King George, suggest my 25/1 shot would have been far from outclassed in the Boxing Day showdown. Que Sera etc but he’s run really well today, for a horse who was on very few peoples minds after his J N Wines success.

    Today’s race seemed one where it paid to be up front and Djakadam was the only one who seemed to come through. The held up horses never really came into it and several dropped off as the race progressed. Ruby Walsh looked gutted, as if he felt sure Coneygree would tire off the front. He managed to reel in Road To Riches on the run in but couldn’t catch the game winner.

    I wouldn’t want to be the handicapper trying to sort all that out with 35 length improvements and top rated being well beaten. Coneygree looks to have made exceptional progress from his previous defeat of Houblon Des Obeaux, even if we allow that horse an off day. Djakadam is assured of a hefty rise, his official mark of 157 is clearly all wrong and it shows the difficulties we all have, and why nobody can ever be complacent about the game, when this Hennessey disappointing favourite, has just turned a 28 length deficit with the winner of that race, Many Clouds, into a 23 length superiority ie 51 lengths, on just 9lb better terms.

    Even Nostrodamus would have found it hard to see some of these turnarounds.

    10/1 Coneygree for next year with Bet Victor if that tempts anyone?

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #832164
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5646

    Ginger, I hope Coneygree holds his form, but I suspect yesterday’s run will never be repeated. Carruthers first 2 chase wins were from the front with big margin victories. He then got a hara kiri ride from Mattie Batchelor in the RSA (I must admit, I wrote then that I thought he’d never recover from that). He proved me wrong in that he won a handful more in his career but he improved his OR by just 1lb after the RSA, and what had looked a highly promising career came to little, barring his shock Hennessy win.

    Temperament might well have played a part, but what causes bad temperament? Rides like the one in the RSA maybe? Any horse has only so much to give, and after big days and gruelling runs, a significant number never again find that form. Grand National winners are a good example.

    On the plus side, he has relatively few miles on the clock, did not finish exhausted by any means, and he’s very strongly built. I just hope they give him a long rest. The temptations for a small yard with such a horse will be many, not least the satchels of prize money at Aintree and Punchestown. We shall see. Whatever happens, it was one of those performances we will never forget.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #832439
    Zamorston
    Zamorston
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    • Total Posts 1101

    They’ve said this morning that is it for the season, and that he’s come out of the race very well….fresh, eaten up well and almost like he hasn’t had a race!

    Likely to return in the Betfair and then a crack at the King George, and they reckon he’s better going right handed!

    Loving this horse like I do I took a bit of 25’s a few weeks ago (only small) for next seasons King George….after his Feltham win and the time he ran as opposed to Silviniaco Conti in the KG…

    He’s now a best priced 7/1 with Betvictor and I still think that’s an outstanding bet as we know that is his definite target and is very likely to get his ideal conditions….I’d prefer to take those odds than 3/1 on Vautour at this stage…

    And like I’ve been saying they still think there’s more to come with him!

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