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That race has made Flat racing look a total joke.
It must be the last time stalls are ever placed in the centre of the track.
The alternative is to cut the track in half as you can never trust these jocks to race as one.
That race has made Flat racing look a total joke.
It must be the last time stalls are ever placed in the centre of the track.
The alternative is to cut the track in half as you can never trust these jocks to race as one.
Jockeys try to get an advantage Stilvi, it’s only natural. Hughesie was on one of the few prominent runners in the field. Drawn nearest the stand side rail, always going to be a possibility to go there. Had he been left alone/few around him and Noozhoh fell apart – could’ve been a race winning move.
I don’t think the draw played that much of a part anyway. Kingman came clear of the Greenham field, so shouldn’t be disadvantaged by racing alone in the final half furlong. Pace on both sides.
Difference between the Greenham and 2000 Guineas is Gosden was in absolutely amazing form at Newbury. Not in bad form now, but my "Trainer In Form" rating for him on Greenham day was 10/10; and only two or three get that rating each season. Today Gosden is only 6/10 (average).
Well done Moehat and Big G.
Value Is EverythingThat race has made Flat racing look a total joke.
It must be the last time stalls are ever placed in the centre of the track.
The alternative is to cut the track in half as you can never trust these jocks to race as one.
I tend to agree. It made no difference to me as I back War Command and Toormore, both were disappointing, but yeah the splitting of the field in group one’s is ridiculous.
The answer to the problem is easy, put the stalls against a rail, it’s not rocket science.
Seems my theme of the week to criticise Newmarket but I think they fully deserve the criticism.
Before the Greenham Night Of Thunder was backed for the 2000 Guineas, with murmurs that he was their main hope ahead of Toormore. Once Kingman dashed home at Newbury Night Of Thunder became the forgotten horse. I expected Kingman to confirm the form today but it didn’t happen and that is why bookies tend to drive better cars than punters do.
Perhaps Kingman didn’t come on for his debut the way it was hoped. The trainer has a modest 2000G record and generally hasn’t had the type of colt to be a contender. On the other side of the track the master 2000G trainer Aiden O’Brien delivered another contender who seemed as near as concert pitch as could be expected, with other targets to come later in the year and Australia ran a belter, looking miles away from the horse who crawled out of the stalls on his debut and then made heavy weather of landing the odds to break his duck. He’ll probably be odds on come Derby Day.
Toormore may need more time and Outstrip may not have trained on. Kingston Hill will be better over further and on softer ground, never appealing to me as Guineas type.
I don’t buy into the draw being a big factor today. Kingman came to win his race on his side of the track but just never cleared away in the manner he had done in the Greenham. Maybe there is a stamina question mark but despite drifting across Night Of Thunder showed the better burst and denied me a forecast in the process. That’s racing for you!
On a final note, can we finally agree that last year’s Coventry wasn’t great shakes? War Command couldn’t get competitive and was beaten by the French and Spanish horses plus all three of Richard Hannon’s horses.
Well done to all who backed the winner, nice payday!
Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.
Difference between the Greenham and 2000 Guineas is Gosden was in absolutely amazing form at Newbury. Not in bad form now, but my "Trainer In Form" rating for him on Greenham day was 10/10; and only two or three get that rating each season. Today Gosden is only 6/10 (average).
Well done Moehat and Big G.
Or the far more likely explanation that they raced as one in the Greenham.
If you actually believe your explanation (I sometimes wonder) you must have thought at 40/1 Night Of Thunder was tremendous value to make up those five lengths?
Looking at the bigger picture if races pan out like that punters are obviously going to think more than twice about betting in them.
Yes, a few people might have thrown a few quid at an outsider and good luck to them but I feel more for those who have had ante-post wagers on the likes of Kingman and Australia and have effectively been robbed.
If its true, as Channel 4 reported, that Gosden blamed the draw for Kingman’s defeat, then his increasingly irritating spin has plumbed new depths.
It is plain for all to see that the winner followed him through and quite simply had the better change of gear when it mattered on the day – not to mention he drifted markedly across the track reducing the eventual winning distance.
I think he ought to be more gracious in defeat.
He’ll probably be odds on come Derby Day.
I notice the winner has entries in the Dante and Derby and has a decent chance on pedigree of staying the longer trip.
If he goes to Epsom I would see no reason why Australia would reverse the form on today’s evidence.
The unspoken 300lbs in the room.Seems talking about the wonderful ride under the circumstances is in poor taste.Old head on old shoulders recipe for winning.Having beaten Kingman he went over to beat Australia.What a jockey.You can have Moore, Buick, Hughsie and Doyle.There is something about the need to succeed. If Kieren why not Frankie?
Considering all of Australia’s breeding suggests he he will improve greatly when going 10and12f he ran a great race and looks the worthy derby favourite although obrien has the likes of Geoffrey Chaucer to run yet. I wouldn’t write off war command or outstrip just yet and I wouldn’t be surprised if both go up to ten furlongs next.The split did make the race unsatisfactory but to me Australia was finishing best of all and would have been second but for the winners mighty swerve. I’m sure most of the field will turn up at the curragh and what’s the odds a lightly raced obrien or Bolger horse wins it.
Difference between the Greenham and 2000 Guineas is Gosden was in absolutely amazing form at Newbury. Not in bad form now, but my "Trainer In Form" rating for him on Greenham day was 10/10; and only two or three get that rating each season. Today Gosden is only 6/10 (average).
Well done Moehat and Big G.
Or the far more likely explanation that they raced as one in the Greenham.
If you actually believe your explanation (I sometimes wonder) you must have thought at 40/1 Night Of Thunder was tremendous value to make up those five lengths?
Looking at the bigger picture if races pan out like that punters are obviously going to think more than twice about betting in them.
Yes, a few people might have thrown a few quid at an outsider and good luck to them but I feel more for those who have had ante-post wagers on the likes of Kingman and Australia and have effectively been robbed.
It’s nice that you
"feel more for"
me.
I had an ante-post bet on Kingman (as a saver bet). But I don’t feel "robbed". How do you think I was robbed?
Please expand on your reasoning Stilvi.
…Only thing I can think of is it might have been a bit easier for Doyle had they kept in one group, possibly (and only possibly) made his move a fraction too soon? No criticism, he was on the short priced favourite with the other market principles on the other side, so had to keep tabs on them. But that’s probably what John Gosden was getting at afterwards.
Night Of Thunder ran alongside Kingman today, they weren’t far apart until the final hundred yards. Hannon horse is undoubtedly a top class colt and should not be under-estimated in future. If the two meet again there shouldn’t be much between them in the betting.
There are other possible excuses: Did Kingman truly stay the mile? Went to the front as if going to win, didn’t find enough to pass the post first.
Trainer Form is just one thing I take in to account Stilvi, when assessing value beforehand. Shame for me,
going
is another
; with "good-firm" ground, unraced on a firm surface and connections believing him best with give in the ground. The going concern proved unfounded. On breeding/temperament likely to be suited/improve by the step up to a truly run mile. However, unfortuntely I did not quite make the winner value. 40/1 was my opinion of his fair price.Like you, I was just looking for possible explanations why the Gosden horse has not gone on as much as expected from Newbury. Trainer Form is imo the most likely reason. Don’t expect anyone to agree with me.
Value Is EverythingLike you, I was just looking for possible explanations why the Gosden horse has not gone on as much as expected from Newbury. Trainer Form is imo the most likely reason. Don’t expect anyone to agree with me.
Who says he hasn’t gone on? Run the race again and ‘Night of Thunder’ wins irrelevant of draw,stalls positioning or tactics.John Gosden put the frighteners up all you guys who were sitting on 14/1 Ante-Post vouchers by saying he wants a bit of cut but the horse quickened up well and strode out on the ground well.’Night of Thunder’ has won like a very decent horse but neither of the 2 favs are anything special.
Like you, I was just looking for possible explanations why the Gosden horse has not gone on as much as expected from Newbury. Trainer Form is imo the most likely reason. Don’t expect anyone to agree with me.
Who says he hasn’t gone on? Run the race again and ‘Night of Thunder’ wins irrelevant of draw,stalls positioning or tactics.John Gosden put the frighteners up all you guys who were sitting on 14/1 Ante-Post vouchers by saying he wants a bit of cut but the horse quickened up well and strode out on the ground well.’Night of Thunder’ has won like a very decent horse but neither of the 2 favs are anything special.
So far, the first three aren’t
"anything special"
YET Gord, doesn’t mean they won’t be in future. All three have prospects of improving, especially Australia given a greater test of stamina.
I said "hasn’t gone on as much as expected", not as you say
"hasn’t gone on"
. Kingman ran as well as Newbury, just didn’t find much improvement (if at all). May be that’s as good as he is. I agree the draw was probably
"irrelevant"
.
Value Is EverythingThe best thing to come out of this years 2000gns is the fact that ‘Long John Glosden’ still cant train a Guineas winner and even when beaten fair and square he still makes pathetic excuses.His horse will win the St James Palace stakes on fast ground irrelevant of what his punter unfriendly trainer says.
So the annual bashing of the Guineas has started in a whisper,just now, but as time goes on it will get louder.
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