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  • #151091

    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4602

    Racing Post ratings if I remember correctly had Neptune Collonges on 178, Denman 184 and Kauto Star 189. According to those it looks as if the first two ran to their ratings and Kauto Star ran below par – I think that is a reasonably fair assessment particularly as he would only have been third if Neptune Collonges hadn’t made a mistake at the second last. Apparantly Thomas claimed the winner had ‘something left’ at the end – personally I wouldn’t have liked to have bet on him had the grey got back to him.

    #151087

    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    ok Denman falls and Kauto star wins or kauto makes no mistakes and passes Denman after the last.
    That is the point i was trying to make with Denman in that form Kauto has to be at his very best.

    oh i totally agree with you there, he would have to be at his very best to beat Denman to day, and he was a long qay from it, but anyone who knows anything about horse racing knows you can loose 2/3 lengths at a fence, i hail Denmans jumping today bar 1 mistake, he was simply good in every single way at what he did, very workmanlike, the way kauto managed to jump so poorly, then manage to get up just b4 he hit the last fence, just makes me feel that kauto is capable of more than what denman did today, but that can not be seen, and may never be seen we shall see, but Denman was VERY good today

    #151081

    tenbob
    Member
    • Total Posts 158

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    ok Denman falls and Kauto star wins or kauto makes no mistakes and passes Denman after the last.
    That is the point i was trying to make with Denman in that form Kauto has to be at his very best.

    #151076
    Bosranic
    Bosranic
    Member
    • Total Posts 1992

    Just got back form Cheltenham.

    Well done, Denmaniacs – your horse did you proud!! Himself was probably the most vociferous – give yourself a pat on the back!!

    Take nothing, I mean absolutely NOTHING away from Denman. That was an awesome performance and worthy of winning any Gold Cup.

    About Kauto Star. He was never travelling. People say they went a fast pace, but I’d guarantee the first circuit in last years Gold Cup was quicker.To say that Denman’s injection of pace in the race beat Kauto is foolish. Kauto didn’t travel right from the start and this affected his jumping.

    It’s a hard race to judge, really. Both Neptune Collanges’ effort and Exotic Dancer’s poor showing (his interrupted prep could be to blame) make it difficult to analyse.

    I will say this. With Denman winning, NC finishing in close proximity to Kauto Star and Halcon Genelardais running a solid race, it gives the impression that it was a race for stayers or ‘old-fashioned’ Gold Cup horses. With that in mind, even though he ran under-par, Kauto Star ran a great race – on slightly better ground he could have been closer.

    People may disagree, but I don’t think Denman stayed 3miles2 as well I thought he would. He looked very tired at the end and after the last he was drifting. Considering how much ground KS made up in the straight, he does stay the distance. It was an exact replica of his run last year. He looked as though he was going to get well and truly hammered turning for home (about 10-15 lengths) but stayed on well to reduce the deficit.

    Personally, I’d like to see Denman tackle Kauto Star over three miles around Kempton in the King George. I still consider Denman to be very one-dimensional, but a top class right-handed victory around a sharp track would change my mind.

    After this weeks racing, I can say I was there when Denman beat Kauto. I was there when Inglis Drever won his third World Hurdle and I was there when Master Minded, the most impressive QM winner in history, won his first (?…) Champion Chase.

    The Gold Cup was a great race. The anticipation is always better than the result – that’s the general rule of life, I’m afraid.

    Again, well done Tank.

    #151055

    Fist of Fury 2k8
    Member
    • Total Posts 2967

    i think he did that to over half the fences tbh? thats the worst jumping i have ever seen him do

    You can’t take a thing away from Denman today he did exactly everything to plan. He’s is a very very good horse and you can only praise the horse he hasn’t put a foot wrong..

    I was never happy with the way Kauto was travelling form the moment he made a couple of errors in front of the stands. At that time Denman turned the tap on and Kauto never looked happy at any stage.

    I wanted and expected to see only two horses in the race over the last 2 fences or possible a 3rd in the shape of Exotic Dancer.

    Instead we have a horse who unless you think he’s as good as Kauto Star has cast a huge shadow of doubt on Kauto’s performance.

    For me he’s come of the bridle too quickly a long way from home.
    He was struggling to get to the 3rd horse never mind Denman.

    Exotic Dancer was no help at all in solving the puzzle and would have been as well staying at home.

    If Kauti has stayed in the bridle until the 3rd or second last and Denman Kicked and Kauto ran out of gas then and been beaten 7 lengths or so with nothing else in sight I would be hailing Denman as The New Arkle right now.

    I wish there were no excuses for Kauto but unfortunately there are going to be a lot of people who will say Kauto Star never ran any sort of race jumped badly wasn’t right, whatever.

    This goes way back to the first time Arkle and Mill House met and Mill House won……..many said Arkle would have won had he not made a bad blunder.

    This debate will go on until they meet again.

    What should be remembered is that Denman proved he is way better than his Hennessy form or Lexus form indicated.

    I think everyone will agree that was one of Kauto’s worst performances. It doesn’t change the fact that this horse is one very high classed animal.

    If Kauto Star V Denman happens again and Kauto travels and jumps better like we know he can, he has still got to get to and pass this brute of a horse.

    That will be no easy task.

    #151043

    Flash
    Member
    • Total Posts 1215

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.

    As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.

    I disaggree, i don’t think it would hav been impressive at all, it was just a slow race, dissappointing than none of the hype materialised, but even the best horse have off days. Any idea when the re match would be?

    It wasn’t a slow race at all. The time was 8 seconds slower than standard, compare that with the three miler (race before) which was 22 seconds slower than standard. Denman’s time is comparatively the fastest of the day by some considerable margin and in the conditions the time is very good.

    #151041

    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.

    As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.

    I disaggree, i don’t think it would hav been impressive at all, it was just a slow race, dissappointing than none of the hype materialised, but even the best horse have off days. Any idea when the re match would be?

    #151039

    Flash
    Member
    • Total Posts 1215

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.

    As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.

    #151031

    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.

    I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.

    This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.

    Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.

    Yes, but has he travelled as fast and jumped fluently before with a horse like Denman out in-front of him? ? ?

    The first lap was run at a slow pace, but Denman upped the pace in the second lap, and this got Kauto Star out of his comfort zone. His jumping wasn’t the most fluent on the first circuit, but with the added pace and pressure Denman was applying in the second circuit, it added to Kauto Star’s mistakes at his fences.

    There was one constant in the hole of KS race, the mistakes at the fences, they didn’t change or get worse, it was just always there. Ruby will never run on Denman as long as KS is around, you could see how disappointed he was that he just wasn’t jumping, and someone said he took the sting out of KS finishing, not AT ALL KS was machining along, then walloped the final fence lol and took him of his rythem for probably the 20th time in that race. Bring on round two i say ^^

    #151027
    Gazs Way De Solzen
    Gazs Way De Solzen
    Member
    • Total Posts 2498

    As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.

    I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.

    This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.

    Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.

    Yes, but has he travelled as fast and jumped fluently before with a horse like Denman out in-front of him? ? ?

    The first lap was run at a slow pace, but Denman upped the pace in the second lap, and this got Kauto Star out of his comfort zone. His jumping wasn’t the most fluent on the first circuit, but with the added pace and pressure Denman was applying in the second circuit, it added to Kauto Star’s mistakes at his fences.

    #151025

    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^

    #151024

    mrcjevans
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.

    I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.

    This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.

    Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.

    #151021

    tenbob
    Member
    • Total Posts 158

    Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.

    #151016
    Gazs Way De Solzen
    Gazs Way De Solzen
    Member
    • Total Posts 2498

    As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.

    I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.

    This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.

    #151002

    In reply to: Ruby…

    Cruella
    Cruella
    Member
    • Total Posts 108

    I hope someone links that clip to Youtube. In fact it should be part of the training for all budding jockeys, a masterclass in how to deal with Thommo.

    What the hell was Ruby supposed to say? "Well Derek, about five minutes ago I lost the Gold Cup to the horse I could have ridden if I hadn’t made the wrong choice. My cut of the Betfair bonus has gone out the window, and now I’m wondering if I’ll ever get the ride back on Denman. No, no regrets really, best day of my life."

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