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Would a proper "Championships" of British racing enhance our sport?


Home Forums Horse Racing Would a proper "Championships" of British racing enhance our sport?

This topic contains 69 replies, has 17 voices, and was last updated by GoldenMiller34 GoldenMiller34 1 day, 12 hours ago.

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  • #1309801

    Richard88
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    • Total Posts 125

    I think you just have to accept that it isn’t going to happen. We at least get people watching Cheltenham, The National and Royal Ascot. Perhaps we should be happy with that. It’s no different to most other sports. A majority of those watching the Wimbledon finals at the weekend wont see another tennis match for 50 weeks. And the men’s final has already lost viewers because Murray wont be there. Hardly anyone watches/pays attention to golf outside the majors. You get the idea.

    Not sure about the whole ‘narrative’ thing. It works in team sports because you can can guarantee that they’ll turn up week after week. That’s not the case with horses. It only takes a minor setback to rule a horse out of a big race and bang, your highly anticipated ‘race of the year’ suddenly loses its appeal to the casual fan. And to keep the tennis comparison going, how many people are really bothered if Murray is ranked Number one or not? (he is for the record) He could be ranked 1000, what people want to see is him winning Wimbledon.

    Promote the hell out of the big festivals and races. You never know a few of them might catch the bug and turn up at Plumpton on a rainy Monday afternoon. If not at least they’ll be back next year.

    #1310408

    yeats
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    • Total Posts 2618

    No, your “proper” Championships of racing would not enhance the sport.

    #1310460

    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 938

    The answer to the question is

    no

    #1310461

    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 938

    [/quote]

    I think you just have to accept that it isn’t going to happen. We at least get people watching Cheltenham, The National and Royal Ascot. Perhaps we should be happy with that. It’s no different to most other sports. A majority of those watching the Wimbledon finals at the weekend wont see another tennis match for 50 weeks. And the men’s final has already lost viewers because Murray wont be there. Hardly anyone watches/pays attention to golf outside the majors. You get the idea.

    Not sure about the whole ‘narrative’ thing. It works in team sports because you can can guarantee that they’ll turn up week after week. That’s not the case with horses. It only takes a minor setback to rule a horse out of a big race and bang, your highly anticipated ‘race of the year’ suddenly loses its appeal to the casual fan. And to keep the tennis comparison going, how many people are really bothered if Murray is ranked Number one or not? (he is for the record) He could be ranked 1000, what people want to see is him winning Wimbledon.

    Promote the hell out of the big festivals and races. You never know a few of them might catch the bug and turn up at Plumpton on a rainy Monday afternoon. If not at least they’ll be back next year.

    Thats about right.

    #1310470
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 21086

    Promote the hell out of the big festivals and races. You never know a few of them might catch the bug and turn up at Plumpton on a rainy Monday afternoon. If not at least they’ll be back next year.

    Isn’t that what a racing “Premier League” would do – “promote the hell out of Big Races”, Richard? All my non-racing freinds/aquaintences say “each race/horse looks the same to me”.
    It’s not supposed to interest us; it’s to get the non-racing public excited about a horse/race – what they’ve just seen.

    value is everything
    #1310472

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 3468

    People scoffed at 20/20 cricket when it started but look at it now. Even Golf are doing something radical with the 6 hole competitions. You need to engage with people and get them interested if you are going to get them to watch anything. A Premier League might not “enhance” the sport but it might get more people watching it if that’s the goal which it seems to be. We mustn’t look at it through our rose-tinted racing specs.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1310475

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 3468

    I think the difference between sports like tennis/golf etc and racing is that tennis and golf are not on terrestrial TV apart from Wimbledon and The Open. Even so, I see 14 million watched the final of Wimbledon compared to 1.4 million for The Derby. We should be doing better. Someone from C4 told me that they get more viewers if they show a repeat of Seven Brides For Seven Brothers on a Saturday afternoon than they do for showing a typical meeting at Haydock or Newbury. We have a core viewership/ fanbase and that is that. You are not going to suddenly fall in love watching racing just by watching ITV in its current format. More needs to be done to engage people and make them care. If they don’t care they don’t watch. So how do we make them care?

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1310479
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 6667

    Horse Racing does not lend itself to a League Format.

    There are too many variables to ever find a definitive Champion.

    The Sport will always be about which horse was the best on the day because it got its ground, distance, course, came in healthy, had the optimum break since its previous race etc etc.

    I am sure most trainers would be against the notion of preparing a horse for a race simply because of its position in some fabricated league.

    Prize money is not where owners make their money at the top level. It’s Classics and Group 1 races they want to win.

    I can’t see anyone getting the notion of donning their Churchill scarf and moseying down to watch him for all of two minutes at his away fixture at Newmarket.

    Racing is unique. The races are fleeting and you could never have it every week as you do with football and other sports.

    As I have said many times, The Shergar Cup is a load of welly and you could not have that cack every week. People would tire of that in a hurry.

    I am happy with Horse Racing the way it is and the bulk of punters are the same. The attention span of the average punter probably hardly extends beyond the next race, never mind about seeing beyond tomorrow.

    It’s unworkable. When you start fiddling with a format, it’s usually a bad sign.

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1310483

    clivexx
    Participant
    • Total Posts 938

    I suppose in fairness the Shergar cup has been a huge success with the public. Whether that is the format or just that ascot is always hugely popular on summer weekends I’m not sure but maybe the competitive element does grab attention

    But I agree that season long won’t work

    #1310501
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 21086

    PREMIER LEABGUE 2016:

    Group 1 100 points a win, 40 second, 10 third.

    SPRINT RACES:
    King’s Stand Profitable 100, Cotai Glory 40, Goken 10
    Commonwealth Cup Quiet Reflection 100, Kachy 40, Washington DC 10
    Diamond Jubilee Twighlight Son 100, Gold Fun 40, Signs Of Blessing 10
    July Cup Limato 100, Suedois 40, Quiet Reflection 10
    Nunthorpe Mecca’s Angel 100, Limato 40, Take Cover 10
    Sprint Cup Quiet Reflection 100, The Tin Man 40, Suedois 10
    Prix De L’Abbaye Marsha 100, Washington DC 40, Mecca’s Angel 10
    Champion Sprint The Tin Man 100, Growl 40, Brando 10

    Quiet Reflection 210, Limato 140, The Tin Man 140, Mecca’s Angel 110, Profitable 100, Twighlight Son 100, Marsha 100, Suedois 50, Washington DC 50, Cotai Glory 40, Kachy 40, Gold Fun 40, Growl 40, Goken 10, Signs Of Blessing 10, Take Cover 10, Brando 10

    MILE RACES:
    2000 Guineas Galileo Gold 100, Massaat 40, Richester 10
    1000 Guineas Minding 100, Ballydoyle 40, Alice Springs 10
    Lockinge Belardo 100, Euro Charlene 40, Endless Drama 10
    Queen Anne Tepin 100, Belardo 40, Lightning Spear 10
    St James’s Palace Galileo Gold 100, The Gurka 40, Awtaad 10
    Coronation Stakes Qemah 100, Nemoralia 40, Alice Springs 10
    Sussex The Gurka 100, Galileo Gold 40, Ribchester 10
    QEII Minding 100, Ribchester 40, Lightning Spear 10

    Galileo Gold 240, Minding 200, Belardo 140, The Gurka 140, Tepin 100, Qemah100, Ribchester 60, Massaat 40, Ballydoyle 40, Euro Charlene 40, Nemoralia 40, Alice Springs 20, Lightning Spear 20, Endlesss Drama 10, Awtaad 10,

    MIDDLE DISTANCE RACES
    Coronation Cup Postponed 100, Found 40, Roseburg 10
    Oaks Minding 100, Architecture 40, Harlequeen 10
    Derby Harzand 100, US Army Ranger 40, Idaho 10
    Prince Of Wales My Dream Boat 100, Found 40, Western Hymn 10
    Eclipse Hawkbill 100, The Gurka 40, Time Test 10
    King George VI Highland Reel 100, Wings Of Desire 40, Dartmouth 10
    Nassau Minding 100, Queens Trust 40, Jemayel 10
    International Postponed 100, Highland Reel 40, Mutakayyef 10
    Yorkshire Oaks Seventh Heaven 100, Found 40, Queens Trust 10
    Arc De Triomphe Found 100, Highland Reel 40, Order Of St George 10
    Champion Stakes Almanzor 100, Found 40, Jack Hobbs 10

    Found 260, Postponed 200, Minding 200, Highland Reel 180, Harzand 100, My Dream Boat 100, Hawkbill 100, Seventh Heaven 100, Almanzor 100, Queen’s Trust 50, Wings Of Desire 40, Architecture 40, US Army Ranger 40, The Gurka 40, Roseburg 10, Harlequeen 10, Idaho 10, Dartmouth 10, Western Hymn 10, Time Test 10, Jemayel 10, Mutakayyef 10, Order Of St George 10, Jack Hobbs 10

    STAYER RACES: (Group 2: 70 points a win, 25 second and 6 third)
    Yorkshire Cup Clever Cookie 70, Curbyourenthusiasm 25, Second Step 6
    Gold Cup Order Of St George 100, Mizzou 40, Sheikhzayedroad 10
    Goodwood Cup Big Orange 100, Pallasator 40, Sheikhzayedroad 10
    Lonsdale Cup Quest For More 70, Pallasator 25, Wicklowe Brave 6
    Doncaster Cup Sheikhzayedroad 70, Quest For More 25, St Michael 6
    St Leger Harbour Law 100, Ventura Storm 40, Housesofparliament 10
    Champion Long Distance Cup Sheikhzayedroad 70, Quest For More 25, Simple Verse 6

    Sheikhzayadroad 160, Quest For More 120, Order Of St George 100, Big Orange 100, Harbour Law 100, Clever Cookie 70, Pallasator 65, Mizzou 40, Ventura Storm 40, Curbyourenthusiasm 25, Housesofparliament 10, Second Step 6, Wicklowe Brave 6, St Michael 6, Simple Verse 6

    Going in to the last day of the season – Champion’s day – four horses were in contention to win the Premiership; Minding on 300, Galileo Gold 240, Found 220 and Quiet Reflection 210.

    Premier League: Final Standings
    Minding 400, Found 260, Galileo Gold 240, Quiet Reflection 210, Postponed 200, Highland Reel 180, The Gurka 180, Sheikhzayadroad 160, Limato 140, The Tin Man 140, Belardo 140, Quest For More 120, Mecca’s Angel 110, Order Of St George 110, Twighlight Son 100, Marsha 100, Harzand 100, Profitable 100, My Dream Boat 100, Hawkbill 100, Seventh Heaven 100, Almanzor 100, Tepin 100, Qemah 100, Big Orange 100, Harbour Law 100, Clever Cookie 70, Pallasator 65, Ribchester 60, Queen’s Trust 50, Suedois 50, Washington DC 50, Massaat 40, Architecture 40, US Army Ranger 40, Wings Of Desire 40, Mizzou 40, Ventura Storm 40, Cotai Glory 40, Kachy 40, Gold Fun 40, Growl 40, Ballydoyle 40, Euro Charlene 40, Nemoralia 40, Curbyourenthusiasm 25, Alice Springs 20, Lightning Spear 20, Roseburg 10, Harlequeen 10, Idaho 10, Western Hymn 10, Dartmouth 10, Time Test 10, Jemayel 10, Mutakayyef 10, Jack Hobbs 10, Housesofparliament 10, Goken 10, Signs Of Blessing 10, Take Cover 10, Brando 10, Endlesss Drama 10, Awtaad 10, Second Step 7, Wicklowe Brave 7, St Michael 7, Simple Verse 7

    2016 Premier League Winner: Minding.

    value is everything
    #1310503
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 6667

    That’s a lot of effort to prove nothing.

    It will never happen.

    A league can only work on the basis of ALL participants competing in the same number of fixtures. That would never happen with Horse Racing.

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1310505
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 21086

    That’s a lot of effort to prove nothing.

    It will never happen.

    A league can only work on the basis of ALL participants competing in the same number of fixtures. That would never happen with Horse Racing.

    Footall would only be fair if every club had the same amount of money. Better get rid of Premier League Football then.

    I’ve already said, only up to the first 5 runs per horse count.
    It’s down to the trainer if he doesn’t run the horse 5 times.

    Massive part of the competition’s make up is finding consistent top class performers.
    If a horse can not run often enough then it has no business winning the competition.

    value is everything
    #1310535
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 16541

    Ginge you have gone bonkers on this

    Only way to get people interested in Horses is by catching them young.
    Get a load of pony clubs set up to compete in races against each other at youth level, make it cheap enough for basic riding lessons and promote the crap out of that, have finals day televised.

    Each school could even house a pony, good education that having each kid, mucking out, feeding, riding.

    Kids are interested in sports because they can play them, then they can watch the tv and start to understand the make up of the sport etc

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #1310546
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 21086

    Ginge you have gone bonkers on this

    Only way to get people interested in Horses is by catching them young.
    Get a load of pony clubs set up to compete in races against each other at youth level, make it cheap enough for basic riding lessons and promote the crap out of that, have finals day televised.

    Each school could even house a pony, good education that having each kid, mucking out, feeding, riding.

    Kids are interested in sports because they can play them, then they can watch the tv and start to understand the make up of the sport etc

    Many kids are interested in horses, Nathan; the beautiful horse. Have them recognise they’re watching a great horse/s and you’ve got more of them hooked. No kid realises what a “Group 1” is; they’re much more likely to get enthused about Minding winning the “Premier League”.

    value is everything
    #1310561
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 21086

    As I have said many times, The Shergar Cup is a load of welly and you could not have that cack every week. People would tire of that in a hurry.

    I am happy with Horse Racing the way it is and the bulk of punters are the same. The attention span of the average punter probably hardly extends beyond the next race, never mind about seeing beyond tomorrow.

    It’s unworkable. When you start fiddling with a format, it’s usually a bad sign.

    It’s nothing like the Shergar Cup, I hate that competition too, Steve. There will be no jockey changes and no country Vs country.

    Other than promotion, the races remain the same as they’ve always been.
    All that would be needed is:
    Instead of publicly calling the races “Group 1” (and a few staying race “Group 2‘s”) promote the hell out of them as “Premier League”.
    Give the outright winning connections a prize.

    Joni’s idea could work too: Getting existing punters involved with a “Fantasy League“. Am not familiar with the ins and outs, presume Joni means something like:
    Pick two horses from each distance category.
    Bonus points for the winner of each category and overall winner.
    Pick a joker (counts double).

    value is everything
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