Winter retires

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This topic contains 22 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by Gingertipster Gingertipster 3 weeks, 1 day ago.

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  • #1327931
    Gingertipster
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    Guineas, Irish Guineas, Coronation Stakes and Nassau winner, Winter has retired to stud.

    fine achievement though it was, must say am a little surprised she was never allowed to take on the colts at 8 to 10 furlongs; Arc too far.

    When Highland Reel retires after one more run there won’t be a real top class older colt in the stable and I would have thought Winter the most obvious replacement. Retiring probably means connections thought her vulnerable as a four year old, with others catching her up. Roly Poly, Hydrangea and Rhododendron all well beaten by Winter early on seemed to improve latterly, where as Winter could not maintain superiority.

    That said, she was very, very good in May to August.

    Coolmore are relying a lot on their 2017 two year olds.

    • This topic was modified 3 weeks, 4 days ago by Gingertipster Gingertipster.
    value is everything
    #1327950
    Degaussed
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    A strange one, considering Roly Poly is also likely to retire to stud after running in Hong Kong. It leaves you wondering who their older miler will be for races like the Lockinge and the Queen Anne, although they didn’t exactly have a strong hand in them this year.

    I can only assume that she has not come out of the Arc well physically and they see no scope for improvement as a 4yo. I’m sure Aidan made noises after that race that she hadn’t and that’s why she went on to skip Ascot and the Breeders’ Cup, and they only tend to keep their fillies in training as mares if there’s a reason to.

    For the older middle-distances races – no decision appears to have been made on Rhodendron, Hydrangea, Idaho and – a much forgotten horse – Orderofthegarter (is he even still alive?).

    #1327953

    nwalton
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    one who might go for the mile races is Deauville, although I doubt he is quick enough but ran ok in this years Queen Anne.
    Does seem they are thin on the ground

    #1327956

    nwalton
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    I suppose they might look at running Lancaster Bomber on his true merits

    #1327959
    Degaussed
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    That’s a great shout, actually. Given a more precise race plan, I think he could easily land a Group 1 mile or two.

    #1327979

    Sunspangled
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    They had such rotten luck with the older fillies this year that it may have discouraged them somewhat from keeping top fillies in training, which is after all a very recent phenomenon for them. They have kept the odd filly in training in the past, Alexandova and Peeping Fawn who never made it to the racecourse, Chicquita and Was who achieved little. Only Found has been successful as a 4yo.
    This year, Minding, Alice Springs and Acapulco only made it back for one warm-up race. Seventh Heaven missed most of the season, and poor Somehow lost her life.
    Winter had a setback after the Arc, we don’t know how serious, but it might have seemed too much of a risk to keep her in training. And Rhododendron’s best distance of 8-10f is the same as Winter’s, should they keep her in training. I think they have always rated her as highly as Winter, and they think there is more to come from her.

    Orderofthegarter is no longer at Ballydoyle.

    The following are the 3yo+ horses currently still in training:

    Order of St George
    Idaho
    Deauville
    Washington DC
    Seventh Heaven
    Capri
    Yucatan
    Cliffs of Moher
    Lancaster Bomber
    War Decree
    Intelligence Cross
    Spirit of Valor
    Rhododendron
    Hydrangea

    With the loss of the older fillies this year, they ended up relying on Highland Reel and Order of St George, with the older division only contributing 3 of the 27 G1s.
    They will potentially have a much more powerful 3yo squad next year to pick up any slack, with 19 individual stakes winners, including 6 G1 winners, and some very promising maiden winners.

    #1328090
    Degaussed
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    Where is Orderofthegarter if not at Ballydoyle?

    #1328107

    Sunspangled
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    Orderofthegarter is now owned by Lloyd Williams and is in Australia

    #1328108
    Gingertipster
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    I suppose they might look at running Lancaster Bomber on his true merits

    Often being pacemaker helped Lancaster Bomber be in (if anything) an advantageous position. Racing prominently is an advantage unless they go too quick early – and he was often advantaged. Only negative towards his chance running him on a soft surface which he clearly can not cope with.

    Consistent though he is on a sound surface, is there anything that suggests Lancaster Bomber is any better than he showed in the 2000 Guineas, St James’s Palace and Breeders cup Mile? Indeed, Woodbine Mile the only race where he could’ve put up a better performance – and that only because he raced “on his true merits” – unusually too far back. Finishing twice as far away from winner With Approval than he did in the Breeders Cup.

    value is everything
    #1328111
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    Orderofthegarter is now owned by Lloyd Williams and is in Australia

    Thanks. Have to say, I’m surprised. I thought he looked useful this season and was really looking forward to him next year.

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Degaussed Degaussed.
    #1328113

    Coggy
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    In my opinion, it may be the case that as they campaign their fillies much more rigorously / often than other trainers previously associated with improving older horses e.g. Henry Cecil, Michael Stoute, there is little extra improvement for them to give.

    #1328139

    nwalton
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    GT

    If you watch Woodbine mile again he did not get the best of runs, by the way I am not suggesting LB is a world beater,the discussion was about who coolmore have for next season.

    I still believe ridden slightly differently (than being an aggressively pacemaker) may help, obviously you see it differently which is fair enough

    #1328140

    nwalton
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    aggressively ridden that should read

    #1328142
    botchy1
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    Looking a formidable bunch for next year when you add the 3YO’s

    Colts
    Saxon Warrior, Gustav Klimt, US Navy Flag, Sioux Nation, The Pentagon, Nelson, Mendelsshon, Amadeo Mogliani, Kenya, Delano Roosevelt, Seahenge, Rostropovich, Threeandfourpence, Declarationofpeace

    Fillies

    Clemmie, Happily, September and Magical

    No doubt a few backward 2 YO’s and unraced ones could make the list. Without next years 2 YO’s :wacko: they have 12 individual G1 winners and 7 individual G1 placed horses to go to war with.

    The record could be on again i reckon :yes:

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by botchy1 botchy1.
    #1328145

    nwalton
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    yeah botchy next seasons three year olds look very good, really looking forward to Clemmie returning and I hope they give September her chance in the 1000

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