Tingle creek

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This topic contains 148 replies, has 31 voices, and was last updated by chaos50 chaos50 5 months, 2 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 106 through 120 (of 149 total)
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  • #1330809
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5258

    1 If Vautour didn’t hammer an antepost stake into your heart as far as Mullins is concerned then, as my mother used to say, hell mend you.

    2 Exchange drifts are the most reliable indicator of a non-runner. I’d say they get it right 99% of the time.

    3 I cannot see any reliable way that the BHA or the Irish authorities can legislate to stop information leaks. They should bring trainers under the same betting rules as jockeys and they should bollix this brand ambassador crap. Other than that, what can they do? What would the punishment be for an information leak from a yard?

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1330810
    Voleur
    Voleur
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    • Total Posts 644

    1 If Vautour didn’t hammer an antepost stake into your heart as far as Mullins is concerned then, as my mother used to say, hell mend you.

    2 Exchange drifts are the most reliable indicator of a non-runner. I’d say they get it right 99% of the time.

    3 I cannot see any reliable way that the BHA or the Irish authorities can legislate to stop information leaks. They should bring trainers under the same betting rules as jockeys and they should bollix this brand ambassador crap. Other than that, what can they do? What would the punishment be for an information leak from a yard?

    Aa sensible way of looking at it. :good:

    Just one of those things. Causes far more perceived harm than it does in actuality.

    #1330812
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
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    • Total Posts 1741

    I don’t understand your attitude at all here Voleur. This is a disgrace and I would have thought it indefensible.

    Mullins COULD have done something – reach out to the press and tell the world that Douvan would not be taking part. One quick phone call as soon as he knew. There were 26 hours between the initial drift and Douvan’s non-declaration. He said nothing.

    It wouldn’t matter if £100,000 were laid or £1 – it’s just not cricket at all. Whether a small wrong or a big wrong, it’s still wrong. Especially in the current climate with such an intense focus on integrity in racing, I can’t believe you’re willing to let this slide.

    #1330813
    steeplechasing
    steeplechasing
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    • Total Posts 5258

    LS, not you as well with this ‘reach out’, aaarrghhh!!!

    Mullins’s Vautour decision (driven to a large extent by Ruby, to be fair) was the equivalent of an antepost earthquake for me, and for many others, I’m sure. But all in all I think he’s a good man and a fair man.

    What I suspect has happened here is that word has got out a few days ago that all was not well with Douvan and a few in the yard have taken something of an educated punt while Mullins has wanted to wait until the last minute to see if the horse will come right. Had he said a couple of days ago that the horse wasn’t pleasing him and he was up against it and then, at this stage, decided to run it would be damned if you do and damned if you don’t.

    He is trying to be canny and make cover-all statements when it would probably be best just to report exactly what is in his mind.

    I think there’s a case to be made for special treatment news-wise of such prominent horses where a trainer gives a daily update on his website or to the PA or equivalent saying exactly how things stand at that time and updating it if something unforeseen happens.

    Punters need to shoulder their fair share of responsibility and the best thing with Mullins is never, ever assume a deal is done and bet accordingly.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1330815

    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 952

    According to Mullins he worked well on Tuesday and cantered yesterday but didn’t work as well this morning and the decision was made not to run him, assuming he then informs Ricci first of all and then the press so not sure what else he is meant to do.

    To me given the horses injury issues, the fact that he was going to be facing racing fit serious G1 rivals I was very surprised the Tingle Creek was ever mooted as an option for him on his first start back – who knows, entirely possible that people looked at that and took a punt that he wouldn’t run.

    Do people honestly think Mullins tells his lads or others ahead of time that horse ‘x’ will not run to give them a chance to ‘make some money’ off the exchanges before officially announcing to the press the horse is not running?

    Sadly after the Vautour debacle I do think that people are determind to believe that no matter what Mullins does, he is being disingenuous to the public about his horses.

    #1330817
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
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    • Total Posts 1741

    According to Mullins he worked well on Tuesday and cantered yesterday but didn’t work as well this morning and the decision was made not to run him, assuming he then informs Ricci first of all and then the press so not sure what else he is meant to do.

    We’re talking about the honesty/straightforwardness of Willie Mullins here. Surely you can’t form your argument around a sentence that begins ‘according to Mullins’. :wacko:

    #1330819
    BigG
    BigG
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4043

    I don’t understand your attitude at all here Voleur. This is a disgrace and I would have thought it indefensible.

    Mullins COULD have done something – reach out to the press and tell the world that Douvan would not be taking part. One quick phone call as soon as he knew. There were 26 hours between the initial drift and Douvan’s non-declaration. He said nothing.

    It wouldn’t matter if £100,000 were laid or £1 – it’s just not cricket at all. Whether a small wrong or a big wrong, it’s still wrong. Especially in the current climate with such an intense focus on integrity in racing, I can’t believe you’re willing to let this slide.

    I don’t have a problem with what you say LS3, I think for the integrity of racing it should be made
    public as soon as a decision has been made that a horse isn’t running. My concern now is slightly
    off the subject, but equally as important for the integrity of racing and betting. I’ll copy a post
    I made in the Becher Chase thread yesterday in response to Mike………….

    ———————————————————-
    Mike007 wrote:
    When I say a horse isn’t running it’s because it is a factual statement made from the connections :yes:

    “Vicente won’t be running the Becher Chase but he could head to Aintree on Saturday for the Many Clouds Chase instead.”

    I saw the quote from Nicholls Mike, I just wonder why ALL of the bookies still have him in the
    betting as low as 10/1. I wished he was running, I put him up along with Vieux Lion Rouge a week
    ago, but Nicholls was quite clear he would not run in the Becher. I wonder how many people, who
    weren’t aware of his comments, have parted with cash after Nicholls declared his intentions :unsure:

    ——————————————————

    Nicholls was quoted, and an article was published on the 5th December which clearly showed that
    Nicholls had no intention of running Vicente in the Becher Chase. Last night (6th Dec), at 10pm,
    I noticed on Oddschecker that he was still quoted by all bookmakers, as low as 10/1 in some places.
    In case Oddschecker hadn’t updated the race, I clicked on one of the bookmaker sites, and sure enough
    he was there at 10/1. I wonder how many people, unaware that Vicente wouldn’t be running, had bets
    placed after Nicholls comments had been published. It’s kind of putting you on the spot, I didn’t
    check Coral’s site, but do you know when you took him off the boards?

    #1330820
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1741

    Vicente was still in the betting because he was still one of the official entries. It’s in Nicholls’ power to scratch a horse via Wetherbys at any time (doesn’t have to wait for the entry stage) if he wants to make it official.

    #1330821
    BigG
    BigG
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4043

    I take your point LS3, but don’t you think that in the spirit of fairness, when a trainer
    publicly states his horse will not be running in a race, it would be better if he were
    removed from the betting. I just wonder how much money punters had placed, with no chance
    of the horse running. I think when we are talking about integrity in the game, it wouldn’t
    be a bad idea if it worked both ways.

    #1330823

    LD73
    Participant
    • Total Posts 952

    According to Mullins he worked well on Tuesday and cantered yesterday but didn’t work as well this morning and the decision was made not to run him, assuming he then informs Ricci first of all and then the press so not sure what else he is meant to do.

    We’re talking about the honesty/straightforwardness of Willie Mullins here. Surely you can’t form your argument around a sentence that begins ‘according to Mullins’. :wacko:

    According = as reported or stated by

    Guess I could have started with ‘Mullins said’ but as I wasn’t there to hear the actually conversation he had, I think according works better in that context.

    I have no reson to believe that he was being dishonest with that statement but I am sure there are those that will regardless, as they already believe in their own minds that he is.

    #1330825
    MarkTT
    MarkTT
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2246

    I can’t believe some of you are so blasé about this. This isn’t right at all. Douvan’s non-participation in the Tingle Creek should NOT have been announced via a massive exchange drift and sudden rush of money for his main market rival.

    I’m trying to think of other stables who do things properly and would suggest Paul Nicholls as the one of the best. He runs a tight ship. For example, there was not even a wobble on Betfair before he announced Movewiththetimes would miss last season’s Cheltenham Festival.

    Ham is very pro Irish (and made a profit off laying Douvan ) Voleur is dismissing any displeasure as conspiracy theorist nonsense.

    Those profiting on the exchanges is just one aspect of this and the Altior saga. Another is the lack of respect shown to other punters not using the exchanges and another aspect is lack of respect for race goers in general.

    It’s also a right wing attitude to dismiss genuine, relevant concerns as conspiracy theorist nonsense.

    The Altior situation was worse but I wish Ricci would stop beating the drum like he’s a bookmaker or pundit and behave more like an owner.

    #1330829

    BrixtonBoy
    Participant
    • Total Posts 83

    Rather pleased San Benedeto was declared eventually having stuck 2 quid on him on the exchange…. at a rather tidy 440/1 :good:

    you never know…..

    #1330839

    ham
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1455

    What would make anyone think in pro irish? What aload of nonsense, ive been laying douvan for weeks as i said at thebstart of the thread i believed he would never come here (that was totally WRONG as he was infact until this morning coming here)

    Im “pro” for fairness on everyone, he went about this in the correct manner, anyone else who thinks otherwise is iust “anti mullins” which is an actual thing on this forum, henderson done a far worse manoeuvre at the start lf the thread (which is why i created the thread) than mullins did and looking at the beasting mullins gets for it but henderson gets a few snide comments

    I couldnt care wether mullins was irish or german, he done nothing wrong. Get over it.

    #1330843
    raymo61
    raymo61
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    • Total Posts 3112

    I have to agree with Joe here!!

    The Vautour saga put me off betting ANYTHING of Mullins ante post!!

    And will continue to do so!! I trust him as far as I could throw him!!

    This Douvan situation surprises me none!!

    How many times does he have to do it before you learn?

    #1330845

    ham
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1455

    A horse drifting from 5/6 to 13/8 does not mean that the exchanges gave this away and stable lads where laying the horse, are they wrong to put a few hundred quid on fox norton at 5/2? Because they know douvan “might”not run? Is that wrong? No its not wrong

    Where did the first move come from? Well according to my timeline, douvan drifted on oddschecker before he drifted on betfair, the bookies where ranting FN was “smashed up”

    If you believe for one second that willie mullins didnt make the final decision this morning your just biased, he did not go on the tv last night and say the horse was sparkling, he gave more than enough warning this could happen….

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