Prince Of Wales Stakes Wednesday 21st June

Home Forums Archive Topics Royal Ascot 2017 Prince Of Wales Stakes Wednesday 21st June

This topic contains 63 replies, has 20 voices, and was last updated by raymo61 raymo61 3 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 64 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1304896
    Voleur
    Voleur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 396

    4 good head to heads this week but the Commonwealth Cup is the one i think could be best of all. 2 high class sprinters.

    3! :good: Poor ol Blue Point shouldn’t be totally dismissed because of Godolphin’s impulsive purchasing habits. Having said that, Caravaggio beats em all. :yahoo:

    Having backed Highland Reel for the Hardwicke I’m obviously disappointed he runs here, he just isn’t as effective over 10f. If they didn’t want to run him in the Hardwicke they should have skipped Ascot altogether in my opinion, and saved him for the King George. But alas here he is, and he’s favourite no less. The ground will certainly favour him rather than Jack Hobbs, but I don’t think Jack Hobbs is as much a mudlark as he’s made out to be. He has excellent form over c+d last season when 3rd to Almanzor on Good ground, he won the Irish Derby on Good ground, and he was second in the Derby on Good to Firm.

    The faster the ground the better for Highland Reel, but I think that is sort of counter-acted by the drop back in trip. So while I’m disappointed he’s not running in the Hardwicke, I’m happy he’s allowing me to get a better price on Jack Hobbs.

    Jack Hobbs has the task of recuperating my losses on Highland Reel and Cloth of Stars, at 3/1.

    #1304899
    CharlesOlney
    CharlesOlney
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1096

    I still think this is the best race of the meeting as Hobbs and Reel have been strutting their stuff winning Group 1’s around the world for the past 3 years whereas the other clashes are all between horses relatively new on the seen. Plus you’ve got the likes of Ulysses, Decorated Knight and Mekhtaal in there for added depth.

    I think Jack is a better horse on a quick surface and, with the likely quick pace, I can see his stamina coming into play up the straight and getting the better of Highland Reel in the final 100 yards.

    #1304997
    plecornu1808
    plecornu1808
    Participant
    • Total Posts 97

    I layed Minding for this and backed Cloth Of Stars the same day.

    Surprised Jack Hobbs is running.

    #1305034
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1134

    Really interesting little race. I disagree that it’s a poor renewal since Jack Hobbs and Highland Reel are elite international G1 horses already, Ulysses and Decorated Knight are on the cusp and Queen’s Trust is one of the best fillies around. It’s not a great renewal but I think this year’s winner will be the best of the last three or four runnings.

    Highland Reel has already proved himself to be the current ‘iron horse’ with his global heroics, airmiles and consistency (on a good surface at least). Still, he’ll need to take the tough guy stuff to another level here. The Coronation Cup must have left some sort of a mark – not only did he have a brtual race (pulling too hard, sweaty, edgy, making all, fighting off all comers etc) but he had a terrible journey to the track as well. He really will deserve to be talked about alongside Giant’s Causeway in the toughness stakes if he can win this.

    It’s boring but Jack Hobbs feels rock solid to me. He handles all surfaces and has the right sire (Halling) to keep improving with age. His slightly unlucky Champion Stakes third would put him right in the mix alone and there’s every reason to think he’ll run well above that here. Semi-blinkers made a tangible difference to him in Dubai, he’s had a clean prep this season and he has that Halling 5yo+ factor in his favour. Personally I think the targets switch-up is a positive too. Gosden/Godolphin obviously feel 1m 2f is no problem and the G1 Prince Of Wales is a more confident choice than the G2 Hardwicke anyway. I’ll take some 3/1, yes please!

    As Steve said (we seem to be agreeing an awful lot lately!) Ulysses seems totally bottled-up at 5/2 – 7/2. He hasn’t done anything at the level Jack Hobbs and Highland Reel have been operating at for years. He might well improve as so many Stoute 4yo+ horses do, but that price is taking it for granted. For every Pilsudski, he has had at least two Telescopes!

    Decorated Knight is a lovely horse representing another stable who do so well with their older horses. Again he needs to find a little more but Black Type’s 10/1 feels like a good price for a little saver. At least he’s a straightforward horse (not always true with Highland Reel/Jack Hobbs/Ulysses) likely to run his race and could capitalise if the others fluff their lines.

    I’ve seen quite a few Queen’s Trust each-way shouts (Maddy P included) but can’t quite see it myself. She’s had a few chances at this level and 12-16/1 only seems fair.

    Jack Hobbs for me, Decorated Knight the saver.

    #1305102
    thejudge1
    thejudge1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1962

    I think Jack Hobbs is the bet here. Already feels like it’ll be a decent week for Godolphin

    #1305217
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 21707

    Ulysses beat Deauville with more in hand than the length margin suggests, and that from further back than ideal. Unlike some this looks his trip. I also saw him win his maiden and Ulysses impressed me (and Jonibake) as a Group 1 horse of the future. Both in stature and motion. Has just the sort of fluent action that should be at its very best on firm ground. I can see the point that on form Ulysses has it to find to win this, but a horse’s chance has also to do with having the right trip, ground conditions and potential to improve.

    Highland Reel‘s top class, but his level of ability is well established. Wins average quality Group 1s, does not win the best of the best. So although has excellent attitude and a grand campaigner, there is a weakness against the very top. Multiple Group 1 winner, however fact he hasn’t won a 10f Group 1 must be a negative… Although length and a quarter behind Postponed, 2nd in International a length in front of the possibly non-staying Mutakayyef (who was only 1 1/4 behind Ribchester in today’s Queen Anne… was right up with Highland Reel’s best form. Had this been at 12f would’ve said he could get the advantage of a soft lead without another confirmed front runner. However, at this trip setting a slow pace is likely to see him outpaced late on. So Moore will probably need to set equal fractions to maximise his chance (negating the pace advantage). Even so, ground conditions here may place more emphasis on speed than at York.

    Jack Hobbs has similar form but is more lightly raced than Highland Reel – so is more likely to show improved form. However, he’s also less reliable – with physical issues. Effective on good-firm but is a possibility this even firmer surface may not be what’s ideal nowadays. Like HR, JH is in search of a lucrative Group 1 10f race for his stud career. Only stayed on for a place in two Champion Stakes performnces on less testing surfaces. Total of 3 3/4 lengths behind Almanzour (1 1/4 behind Found) two top notchers. Form that still might be good enough. Very best has come at 12f, 10 on firm likely to test his speed too under fast ground.

    Decorated Knight comes from a yard in great form and won his first Group 1, Tattersalls Gold Cup last time. In truth needs to build again on a 1 1/4 beating of Somehow. Improving, but there’s perhaps more of a doubt about his effectiveness on this surface.

    Queens Trust disappointed on reappearance, not given a hard time close home and needed it at a time when her trainer wasn’t in form; is now! Queens Trust won the Breeders Cup F+M Turf pipping the USA trained favourite Lady Eli in similar conditions to here. Also only 1 1/4 lengths behind the fairly easy winner Minding in the Nassau. Has form that is not as far behind the top three as the betting indicates. imo Worth taking a chance on at around 14/1.

    Mekhataal isn’t out of it, but a neck defeat of Robin Of Navan doesn’t look outstanding Group 1 form. Before that got nabbed by the good Cloth Of Stars in Prix Harcourt. Probably flattered, as winner got in to trouble. Going in to the unknown for ground conditions. Is likely to chase Highland Reel up front early.

    Scottish is the other possible prominent racer. On form it’s possible to argue might just squeak a place if some underperform. Consistent at a lower level than this. However there’s nothing to suggest he’s capable of upping his game to win this.

    Johannes Vermear probably does have improvement in him, but needs an awful lot of it. Over 4 lengths behind Decorated Knight last time.

    My 100% Book:
    Ulysses 100/30, Highland Reel 100/30, Jack Hobbs 100/30, Queens Trust 17/2, Decorated Knight 10/1, Mekhtaal 13/1, Scottish 50/1, Johannes Vermeer 80/1.

    value is everything
    #1305228
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1134

    Changed my mind on this race today. Rewatching Ulysses’ Brigadier Gerard win, he did something special to sweep through so easily when held-up off a slow pace. Deauville no easy horse to concede first run to either.

    Sorry Jack Hobbs, but I’m switching my loyalty.

    #1305232
    raymo61
    raymo61
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2565

    This is a very interesting race inasmuch that the front two in the market both want further for me. Both Highland reel and Jack Hobbs are twelve furlong horses!! It will be interesting to see what tactics are used here because the pace seems to be with Scottish unless HR decides to try and make all in which case he could be vulnerable to a finisher!
    Ulysses looks like a ten furlong horse but lacks the form to back it up at this standard.
    Mekhtaal will love the ground but once again lacks the form to be considered for this IMO
    Scottish is another twelve furlong horse!
    Johannes Vermeer just isn’t good enough.

    That leaves Queens Trust and Decorated Knight.
    For me Queens Trust lacks tactical speed and may be found wanting when they quicken up and be outpaced which is a shame because I like the horse and backed it at the Breeders Cup last year where they went fast enough to nullify it’s lack of pace.
    That just leaves Decorated Knight who looks like the improver in the race. he has been gradually brought on since spending most of his career over shorter trips. DK also beat Deauville by farther than Ulysses last time out and does possess the necessary toe to win this IMO and at 8/1 looks the bet here.

    Good Luck :good: :good:

    #1305323
    botchy1
    botchy1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1458

    I’ll be quite happy if all the top three in the betting run well. Backed Johannes Vermeer E/W @ 66’s earlier on this morning. Never shown enough to be placed in a race like this but you but you never know. They must of kept him in training for some reason. :yes:

    #1305326

    Twice Over
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 179

    Ulysses
    Highland Reel‘s top class, but his level of ability is well established. Wins average quality Group 1s, does not win the best of the best.

    Yeah, because the Breeders Cup Turf of 2016 was an average edition. 😉

    there is a weakness against the very top. Multiple Group 1 winner, however fact he hasn’t won a 10f Group 1 must be a negative…

    Technically, that is incorrect. He won a Secretariat Stakes in the US in 2015. Granted, the form of the other horses was and continues to be horrendous

    Jack Hobbs has not won a Group 1 at 10 furlongs either , as you alluded to

    Other than that, you are probably right. Stoute has two decent horses in this race. Could be a good day for the French too.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 4 weeks ago by  Twice Over.
    #1305356
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 21707

    Ulysses
    Highland Reel‘s top class, but his level of ability is well established. Wins average quality Group 1s, does not win the best of the best.

    Yeah, because the Breeders Cup Turf of 2016 was an average edition. ;-)

    there is a weakness against the very top. Multiple Group 1 winner, however fact he hasn’t won a 10f Group 1 must be a negative…

    Technically, that is incorrect. He won a Secretariat Stakes in the US in 2015. Granted, the form of the other horses was and continues to be horrendous

    Jack Hobbs has not won a Group 1 at 10 furlongs either , as you alluded to

    Other than that, you are probably right. Stoute has two decent horses in this race. Could be a good day for the French too.

    Yes, technically you are correct, TO. However…

    To be honest, when it comes to distance/stamina requirements I don’t look back that far. So as far as I am concerned the horse we NOW know as Highland Reel hasn’t won at 10f at Group 1 level. Horses tend to stay/need further the older they get.

    Breeders Cup was an average renewal; “average” is often used in racing as a detrimental description, I mean it as a middle rating amongst Group 1 winners – overall a compliment I’d say. ie 1 3/4 lengths victory over Flintshire (a horse rated 128 in Timeform and who’d put up that rating several times). Found in third was below best; he failed to beat the filly in the Arc when at her best. When the “best of the bests” actually run to form Highland Reel is beaten even at 1m4f. There may or may not be a real top notcher in today’s race, but there are one or two who could conceivably improve in to one.

    value is everything
    #1305385
    botchy1
    botchy1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1458

    Have to put a tenner on Jack Hobbs now. Half way there to going through the card. :yes:

    #1305391
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6918

    Pathetic effort from Jack Hobbs. He looked devoid of pace today. Surely they must regret the switch from the easier Hardwicke.

    That’s probably raxed the horse for the rest of the season now.

    Highland Reel had the class to see off the ones who either had weak Group 1 form or form at just that bit short of Group 1. I have always felt Ulysses is that bit short of it but he ran his race.

    Jack Hobbs had a clear path mapped out after Meydan and they went against it in the end. I felt he could be competitive today but it was simply a disaster.

    Well done Highland Reel fans, Aidan is the kiddie when it comes to putting a horse in the correct race at the correct time.

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1305392
    St Nicholas Abbey
    St Nicholas Abbey
    Participant
    • Total Posts 130

    Wonder what happened with Jack Hobbs? Strikes me that horse is made of fine china; Highland Reel is made of galvanised steel.

    #1305394
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 21707

    Highland Reel proved he’s equally effective at 1m2f.
    Shame Jack Hobbs appeared to hate the ground, awkward head carriage, hope he’s ok.
    Decorated Knight is steadily progressive and ran well.
    Ulysses ran his best race yet, going well two out and hit the front before the stayer/genuine Highland Reel battled back. Ulysses could still be the best of these by the end of 2017.
    Queens Trust perhaps finishing best of all, a stronger pace would’ve helped from her position out the back.
    Scottish ran his usual consistent race, not good enough in this grade.
    Mekhtaal possibly didn’t act on this firm ground.

    Well done to Highland Reel backers.

    value is everything
Viewing 15 posts - 46 through 60 (of 64 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.