March 14, 2009 at 00:48 #10587
- Total Posts 320
Don’t know if it’s been asked before, but is there any reason why JP doesn’t have any horses with Nicholls? As a fan of McCoy, I can’t remember him ever riding in the Gold Cup for JP – in fact has JP got any decent young chasers coming through?
I’m sure he’s on a nice retainer, but he must be thoroughly p****d off at yet another disappointing Festival, 1 winner, and only one hotly fancied ride – the rest were much of a muchness.March 14, 2009 at 01:15 #216163
- Total Posts 1392
In all honesty AP had a decent set of rides, maybe not in the championship races but the handicaps looked good for him.
Off the top of my head he had Calgary Bay, Binocular, the legendary Wichita Lineman, Cant Buy Time and Sunnyhillboy all of which looked like very decent festival bets. And thats without bringing Exotic Dancer into the equation.March 14, 2009 at 01:27 #216170
I think the main problem JP has (although doesnt seem bothered by it) is that he has 100’s of horses with JJ O’Neill, in all honestly JJ O’Neill is probably one of the worst trainers out there considering the amount of horses he has, the amount of resources he has, and also the money JP has given him.
You have to ask yourself why are all of JP’s stars with other trainers??
But McCoy seems go get as enthusiastic by winning at Plumpton on a Tuesday than he does Cheltenham, he just loves having winners and it seems like he prefers quantity over quality.
I think McCoy will be happy with his festival bar Binocular
Another reason I presume JP does not have horses with Nicholls is I presume because of Findlay,Ferguson etc, He wouldnt be the star owner…..
I always wondered who buys JP’s horses and could anyone not do a better job the amount of duds he seems to have? But sure the man is so rich does he really care, u know last year when C Cee Bee won at Cheltenham, it was the first time JP actually saw the horse!!!!!!March 14, 2009 at 01:28 #216171
- Total Posts 318
I’m trying to remeber the name of JP’s Gold Cup horse who was going well If I remeber and fell….I think..A name like Jay Trump but not that…should rewrite this but stiff it. It was Jack of Trumps.
He doesn’t half like his hurdlers though. Exoeensive flat horses who probaly will never go chasing. Can’t see WL ever running in a Gold Cup he’d be tailed of after a circuit and get beat a length which is no goodMarch 14, 2009 at 01:34 #216174
- Total Posts 140
I seriously doubt AP will be happy with how the Festival went.
Only 1 winner, Binocular beaten, and didn’t even have rides in the two Grade 1’s on Thursday.March 14, 2009 at 02:05 #216184
At the time AP chose to move to JP, Martin Pipe did not have the fire power he once had. It seemed as though Jonjo was on the up.
Jonjo does have a good record at the Festival, particularly in handicaps. Though I can only remember Iris’s Gift winning a top race.
JP does not often move a horse he buys away from it’s original trainer. Even Baracouda stayed in France. He should have a good deal of credit for that.
But consequently Jonjo does not get many horses moved to him.
PN has done exceptionally well with horses who had shown promising form in France.
Jonjo may not be as good as Nicholls but he is not a bad trainer.
Markvalue is everythingMarch 14, 2009 at 02:15 #216187
Ah I have to argue the fact that Jonjo is a bad trainer
To be given the resources he has been given, and to do as medeocur as he has , I feel he is a bad trainer.March 14, 2009 at 02:16 #216188
With normal day to day racing most winners come from small yards. There are plenty of winners AP can get on. However, when it comes to the best racing and the best horses: Most Brittish trained good horses are in Nicholls, King or Henderson’s yards. Stables that have their own stable jockey. AP may get the odd ride from Henderson but most will be ridden by BG. Therefore AP will rarely get as many good rides as Ruby, Choc or Barry in the very top races.
Markvalue is everythingMarch 14, 2009 at 02:18 #216189
Ah I have to argue the fact that Jonjo is a bad trainer
To be given the resources he has been given, and to do as medeocur as he has , I feel he is a bad trainer.
What horses should he have done better with?
It is your opinion, not a fact Micks.
Markvalue is everythingMarch 14, 2009 at 02:53 #216198
It is just my opinion which I presume I am entitled to, apologies for calling it a fact.
In my opinion he should of done better with the 551 runners he had 2008-2009 season so far
Nicholls has had exactly 500 runners this season
Yet Nicholls has won £3,072,215 in prize money whereas O Neill has won £891,860 in prize money
Now I guess the argument here is do you think Nicholls has been given more money,better horse,amunition than O’Neill.
Honestly I feel for the amount of resources O Neill has, he is a bad trainer.
If I was an owner giving my trainer 551 runners so far this year I would expect a greater return. Can you imagine the actual loss McManus is making on keeping these horses in training?March 14, 2009 at 03:17 #216205
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I like Jonjo looks a happy go lucky man always smiling must be a joy to work with.March 14, 2009 at 03:37 #216211
I think that is why JP is so loyal to him, they are old mates, and in fairness J J does seem like a sound bloke.
I personally just dont think he is a very good trainer, but yeah he seems a top blokeMarch 14, 2009 at 03:52 #216216
But if you want to look at bad owners lets look at Mrs Diane Whateley
The Grey Berry / Cost £340,000 /Won £2,497
Warsaw Pact / Cost £200,000 / Won £26,715
The list for this lady goes on
You can either look at it one of two ways
1) Fair play to her for investing so much money in the sport and taking her chance
2) You have to wonder what do you have to do to become a bloodstock agent/expert and justify advising/spending 300k plus on a horse to win 2k
Surely anyone can do this?
I suppose if you are this rich though do you really care?March 14, 2009 at 04:49 #216231
The Young FellaBlocked
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The Grey Berry’s career and indeed his life was tragically cut short. It wouldn’t be fair to judge him on his few hurdles runs – he hadn’t even had a chance in a handicap.March 14, 2009 at 05:07 #216234
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A P may not have had as many winners as he would have liked, but his ride on Wichita Lineman is something that racegoers will remember for a long time.
Ruby Walsh made the point in his interviews about how lucky he felt being the retained jockey for the top trainers in both Britain and Ireland. He is a brilliant rider as well but without these connections he wouldn’t break the records he does.
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