Is Doncaster a festival?

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This topic contains 24 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Gingertipster Gingertipster 2 months ago.

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  • #1317426
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    May be nice to see these legends, but should a class 5 be the highlight of day 1?

    Race 1 is a 4 runner Class 2 2yo conditions race.
    Race 2 is a 10 runner Class 2 Nursery.
    Race 3 is a 6 runner Listed.
    Race 4 is the 14 runner Class 5 Classified Legends race.
    Race 5 is an 8 runner Class 2 handicap.
    Race 6 a 4 runner Conditions race.
    Race 7 a 16 runner Class 4 handicap.

    Should this meeting’s number of days be reduced to improve quality?

    value is everything
    #1317433

    Coggy
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    In a word, no.
    Having said that, if it attracts people to racing, then what is the harm.
    Lets hope it isn’t just the beer monsters.

    #1317437

    yeats
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    Should this meeting’s number of days be reduced to improve quality?

    Who would benefit from that?

    One less day at Donny means one more day at somewhere like (God forbid) Newcastle AW.

    Unfortunately quantity not quality rules the roost here to satisfy both bookmakers and levy requirements.

    No better example of that than the 3 remaining British meetings today have less prize money combined than this “sub-standard” day at Donny.

    #1317465
    Drone
    Drone
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    In my experience festivities began after racing in the Rockingham Arms and finished in the Tut ‘N’ Shive shortly before, or on occasions shortly after, the last train home

    The St Leger Meeting has long been my favourite Flat meet and the first two days the most enjoyable on-course. However that was when Wednesday had the Yearling, Park Hill and Portland; and Thursday the wonderful sequence of Park, Doncaster Cup, May Hill, Sceptre and Scarbrough

    Today’s relatively weak card just epitomises the general shift-it-towards-the-weekend that’s been inflicted on most of the high-profile midweek meetings: it’s a shame

    There always was a bit of mediocre padding over the four days and calls for it to be reduced to three are not new; which thankfully have been rejected; though the reductionists have never had a stronger case than now

    #1317545

    Kris
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    I would agree with most of that Drone, especially the last line.

    I hope little notice is taken of the complaints though, and as I’m travelling up for Friday and Saturday, I am excited as I ever am for it. Yes, the prestige surrounding The St Leger disappeared many years ago, and the quality of horses competing in it, seems to get worse every year, but it won’t dampen my enthusiasm at all. A win for Venice Beach wouldn’t hurt either.

    #1317557
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    I would agree with most of that Drone, especially the last line.

    I hope little notice is taken of the complaints though, and as I’m travelling up for Friday and Saturday, I am excited as I ever am for it. Yes, the prestige surrounding The St Leger disappeared many years ago, and the quality of horses competing in it, seems to get worse every year, but it won’t dampen my enthusiasm at all. A win for Venice Beach wouldn’t hurt either.

    Hi Kris,
    I note you think the St Leger’s quality has deteriorated.
    I did a bit of research in to the ability of winners, seconds and thirds of every Group 1 race. By looking up Timeform performance ratings of the winner, second and third of the last five renewals.

    How many pounds inferior would you estimate the average St Leger winner, second and third are compared to say a 2000 Guineas and Derby winner, second and third?

    value is everything
    #1317568

    Kris
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    Hi Ginger,

    I have no doubt the actual quality of the runners, ratings wisevanyway, will have been as good as ever, and maybe even better than Derby winners. Racing is my second sport and I wouldn’t have the in depth knowledge of the game of someone like yourself. Looking back at what I wrote, I definitely worded it wrong. I am more concerned at the lack of the really big names that seem to head to The Leger now, though it may be rose tinted specs time for me, as my early memory of the race is being heartbroken when Shergar got beat. I just get the feeling that was once one of the biggest races of the year for me, just does not quite get the real stars now. As I said, it hasn’t diluted my enthusiasm for the weekend in the slightest.

    Good luck with your bets over the weekend

    #1317582
    Gingertipster
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    Hi Ginger,

    I have no doubt the actual quality of the runners, ratings wisevanyway, will have been as good as ever, and maybe even better than Derby winners. Racing is my second sport and I wouldn’t have the in depth knowledge of the game of someone like yourself. Looking back at what I wrote, I definitely worded it wrong. I am more concerned at the lack of the really big names that seem to head to The Leger now, though it may be rose tinted specs time for me, as my early memory of the race is being heartbroken when Shergar got beat. I just get the feeling that was once one of the biggest races of the year for me, just does not quite get the real stars now. As I said, it hasn’t diluted my enthusiasm for the weekend in the slightest.

    Good luck with your bets over the weekend

    In the last 5 years:
    Derby and 2000 Guineas winners have the same average rating, with the average St Leger winner rated 5 lbs inferior.
    It’s closer with the placed horses.
    Average St Leger runner-up is rated 2 lbs worse than Derby runner-ups and just 1 lb worse than 2000 Guineas.
    Average St Leger thirds are rated just 1 lb worse than Derby thirds but 1 lb better than 2000 Guineas thirds.

    So you’re probably correct in thinking big names avoid the race these days, Kris. But the overall quality of the field compares fairly well with both Derby and Guineas.

    Shergar and Camelot’s defeats haven’t done the race any good, discouraging the best middle-distance horses from running… Along with the stupid obsession of breeders with “speed”. Strangely enough encouraged by people like Coolmore, and yet the best sire around – Galileo – is a strong influence for stamina. Had Galileo won the St Leger would he have been less of a stallion? Truthful Answer: Probably yes – at least in his early covering years – purely because fewer top breeders would’ve taken their best mares to him.

    At least this year looks an excellent renewal. As far as I remember the last Derby winner to be victorious was Reference Point.

    value is everything
    #1317597
    LostSoldier3
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    It’s only a festival if Nathan is running a competition.

    #1317643
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    Exactly

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #1317644
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    Yeats’ post is about spot on
    I’d go as far as moving the better races on the other days to the Saturday aswell
    Taunton races has crap cards every time yet it doesn’t stop people going or paying FA Cup quarter final prices to gain entry, people will still pay ££ for a racecard and ££££ for a pie and a pint whether it’s a class 9 £5 for the winner or the ‘gingertiptser world championships Premier League of racing’ £1,000,000,000,000,01 for the winner

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #1317878

    yeats
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    Some of the prize money seems poor for certain races, only 37.5k for the Portland winner and a measly 25k for the winner of The Mallard. There were 2 races at Haydock last Saturday over 14 furlongs, one was worth 50% more than The Mallard and the other a whopping 150% more. Doubt most would know the name of the Haydock races off the top of their head.

    #1317882

    steveh31
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    Here we go the annual Racing Forum let’s have a go at Doncaster and the St Leger festival thread.

    Every year it’s the same

    The St Leger Festival and Doncaster are fine as they are they do not need to be changed.

    Roll on the September 2018 thread.

    #1317888
    raymo61
    raymo61
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    If it gets people through the gates than whats the problem??
    We can all moan about quality and condensing it but people vote with their feet and it seems to get good crowds and it has to be better than AW fodder!!

    Even I was moaning about the quality or lack of it in the Doncaster Cup and the paucity of runners in the Mallard but that does not mean I want to cancel a day or shorten the meeting.

    Leave it be!!

    #1317944
    Gingertipster
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    Some of the prize money seems poor for certain races, only 37.5k for the Portland winner and a measly 25k for the winner of The Mallard. There were 2 races at Haydock last Saturday over 14 furlongs, one was worth 50% more than The Mallard and the other a whopping 150% more. Doubt most would know the name of the Haydock races off the top of their head.

    Prize money is probably why Donny has got poorer races starting the week and struggling to attract descent fields in its supporting races, Yeats.

    value is everything
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