Flat or Jumps?

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This topic contains 56 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Spitfire 9 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #10387

    Spitfire
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    I’m probably in a minority both here and with horse racing fans in general but my preference is flat, turf that is and the fast approaching Lincoln meeting is as exciting as the Chelt Fest for me. Love the quality stuff over jumps but I don’t get excited about the rest.

    Find form study easier and quicker on flat as well where the draw bias means you can discount half the field straight away in some races, jockeyship isn’t as important and long lay-offs are a much greater negative. Love my listed races as well, absolutely love em for laying.

    #212520
    Burroughhill
    Burroughhill
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    Jumps all the way. The reason? Horses like Lough Derg et al.

    #212527

    KendalCavalier
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    The Derby would be much more of a spectacle with obstacles. Perhaps they could introduce fences made from Epsom Chav.

    National Hunt is real racing, followed by real race fans, who brave the most severe elements to follow their sport. NH has more passion, the people within NH are more approachable and the horses truly are equine Gods.

    #212529
    Arazi
    Arazi
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    • Total Posts 271

    I’ve always enjoyed both the National Hunt & Flat racing equally. I’d get as excited watching Dayjur, Dubai Millenium & Zarkava as I would watching Desert Orchid, Moscow Flyer & Kauto Star.

    #212534

    Ugly Mare
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    I’ve been following both codes for years with equal interest, but any casual viewer who happened to see the 1.55 Beginner’s Chase at Thurles today could be forgiven for being put off NH for life, as the mare Mullicagh Lass took what to me was one of the most horrifyingly fatal falls I’ve seen in many a year, and she was still visible on the ground without screens on the 2nd circuit.
    In fact the whole meeting seemed to take a heavy toll.

    With so much televised racing today this is an almost common occurrence and is not for the more sensitive viewer, and I couldn’t blame anyone for thinking just who would want to be involved in such a sport as this.

    The RP’s post race analysis only managed:-
    "Mullicagh Lass suffered a fatal fall at the third fence"

    well my oh my, thanks for telling us. Brush it under the carpet, hope no one notices. :(

    #212539

    Bulwark
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    I must admit that I have always been more into the flat than jumps but jumps has been growing on me a bit over the last couple of seasons.

    I dont buy all this "NH fans are real racing fans, bearing the cold" etc. Because IMO that isnt the case, big race days aside there arent many people packing out the grandstands at most NH tracks up and down the country on cold days, at least to any that Ive been to on a cold day. If you go to an NH meeting on a warm day then you’ll see its just about as packed out as a an average flat meeting.

    Real racing fans just love racing, and a preference for either code is expectable, usually dependant on where you generally punt better. One thing that has always struck me about most people who have a preference for jumps, however, is that they are very intimidated by the flat. They complain about flat horses being sent off to stud at the end of the season, but yet a few years down the line they could be betting on that horses offspring, season in and season out.

    IMO the flat is where the class is at, and NH is what flat trainers show their horses to encourage them to get their act together, but it is enjoyable nevertheless.

    #212542

    Rob V
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    I prefer Flat because there are some real speed machines, thrilling finishes, less horses injured and I can back a horse without the fear of having it fall at a fence thus ruining my bets. Around every 10 or so years, we get a ‘wonder horse’ that grips the flat racing world.

    However, on the down side, I do get very annoyed when champion horses are retired at the end of their 3YO season. When this happens, we don’t get to see them competing with the older champions and so the inconclusive "what if" topics tend to pop up. For example, what if Dancing Brave would’ve stayed in training as a 4YO and took on Reference Point and Mtoto in the 87 eclipse? Due to this, so many potentially great races on the flat have gone begging! This is one major plus that National Hunt racing will always have over the Flat because NH horses come back year after year and this, in my opinion, gives and allows for greater understanding to a horse’s rating and form.

    #212543
    Maxilon 5
    Maxilon 5
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    The Derby would be much more of a spectacle with obstacles. Perhaps they could introduce fences made from Epsom Chav. National Hunt is real racing, followed by real race fans, who brave the most severe elements to follow their sport. NH has more passion,

    the people within NH are more approachable

    and the horses truly are equine Gods.

    Oh, the irony, the irony. :D

    Roll on Doncaster is my tuppence ha’penny.

    #212544

    Bulwark
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    • Total Posts 3176

    However, on the down side, I do get very annoyed when champion horses are retired at the end of their 3YO season. When this happens, we don’t get to see them competing with the older champions and so the inconclusive "what if" topics tend to pop up. For example, what if Dancing Brave would’ve stayed in training as a 4YO and took on Reference Point and Mtoto in the 87 eclipse? Due to this, so many potentially great races on the flat have gone begging! This is one major plus that National Hunt racing will always have over the Flat because NH horses come back year after year and this, in my opinion, gives and allows for greater understanding to a horse’s rating and form.

    But then at the same time Rob, could the 2008 denman have beaten the 2007 kauto star, and could whatever wins this years gold cup (assuming denman turns up out of form) have beaten denman last year. One horse being better than another who is reasonably in the same ball park form wise is all relative IMO.

    #212546

    Rob V
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    • Total Posts 174

    However, on the down side, I do get very annoyed when champion horses are retired at the end of their 3YO season. When this happens, we don’t get to see them competing with the older champions and so the inconclusive "what if" topics tend to pop up. For example, what if Dancing Brave would’ve stayed in training as a 4YO and took on Reference Point and Mtoto in the 87 eclipse? Due to this, so many potentially great races on the flat have gone begging! This is one major plus that National Hunt racing will always have over the Flat because NH horses come back year after year and this, in my opinion, gives and allows for greater understanding to a horse’s rating and form.

    But then at the same time Rob, could the 2008 denman have beaten the 2007 kauto star, and could whatever wins this years gold cup (assuming denman turns up out of form) have beaten denman last year. One horse being better than another who is reasonably in the same ball park form wise is all relative IMO.

    Well Bulwark, personally, I feel that Kauto Star in the 2008 Gold Cup ran a bit below par against Denman but racing is about the survival of the fittest too. Thing is, why do we have to wait for a whole year before Kauto Star and Denman race against each other? Surely they can complete with each other in other races too without waiting for the Gold Cup all the time. That way, we may see just who’s the better.
    Take Raven’s Pass and Henrythenavigator for instance in 2008. When they raced against each other, RP was getting closer and closer to HTN with every race and then improved past him. It looked quite obvious to me that RP ended up the better of the two.

    By the way, has Raven’s Pass retired?

    #212549
    Himself
    Himself
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    I love both codes – but over the years I have developed a slight preference for the jumps. Put it this way, I’d rather go to the Cheltenham festival than Royal Ascot.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #212553
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    I love both codes for opposite reasons.

    I like the fact the flat is virtually renewed each year after many have gone to stud. Flat horses have certain things jumpers don’t. If jumpers weren’t geldings, they’d go to stud after a couple of years too. To see young horses learning the game, progressing through the ranks. If something can be gained through keeping a horse in training, they will be kept in training at four or even five. The quality of GB and IRE flat horses is terrific. Raven’s Pass in Britain and America, Zarcava in France, New Approach, Henrythenavigator, Duke Of Marmalade and all. Think they are wonderful. I like horses retiring at the height of their powers instead of racing on when on the downgrade. Then there is how two year olds train on, the classic generation.

    I like having to think about different aspects of form when betting on each code. Am sure I would love both codes even without betting. May be betting rules racing media too much. In October I am looking forward to the jumps and in April (after the National) I am looking forward to the flat.

    Also like the fact jumpers come back year after year. Cheltenham is simply the best meeting in the world. Was a better three day meet than four days, but that’s a different subject. We have in GB and IRE the best jump racing in the world. Apart from France, no other country comes close to the quality of jump racing we have. In Kauto Star, Denman and Master Minded, we have three great horses, three of the best horses ever to race. The Grand National is the best race in the World. Fortunately it is not as dangerous as it was, yet a horse still needs to jump well. In my opinion they have got it just right. Just wish the media would not play as much on the fallers of yesteryear (Foinavon etc.). It is a different race now, something many members of the public do not realise.

    There are though more horses suffering injuries and fatalities over jumps than on the flat. For that reason, even though Cheltenham and the Grand National are my favourite meeting and race; I do overall marginally prefer the flat.

    Mark

    value is everything
    #212555
    MDeering
    MDeering
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    The Derby would be much more of a spectacle with obstacles. Perhaps they could introduce fences made from Epsom Chav.

    National Hunt is real racing, followed by real race fans, who brave the most severe elements to follow their sport. NH has more passion, the people within NH are more approachable and the horses truly are equine Gods.

    That’s like telling me people who cannot drive vehicles in manual are pussies, those who know and drive in manual are real men etc etc

    It’s a pathetic argument.

    I love racing, I love equine.

    You sir, with all due respect, are a pretentious w*nker.

    #212558

    Spitfire
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    • Total Posts 184

    Yes there is always that snobbery that surfaces between the two codes, Ally Down for one always lets us know he prefers the jumps with a sneering attitude for the flat which of course doesn’t stop him earning a living off it.

    #212559
    MDeering
    MDeering
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    • Total Posts 1735

    I cannot say I prefer either, simply because I have not been exposed to the beauty of NH and instead the jumps racing that involves 2-foot-tall paintbrush "speed bumps", concrete tracks and race tempos that would put mile flat races to shame.

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