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This topic contains 15 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by Degaussed Degaussed 1 month, 3 weeks ago.

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  • #1317599

    mickeyjp
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    • Total Posts 507

    Having been very busy I’ve just watched the Sunday forum and have to say Julian muscat was the only guy who seems to know his onions. Called each race on Saturday in Ireland as it actually happened while Thornton and Thomas seem to want to defend poor jockeship as bad luck. I’m not anti Ryan Moore but both Churchill and cliffs of moher were given shocking rides in the Irish champion. Moore finished third on minding the previous year when almanzor and found swooped down the outside on the better ground and seamie rode for luck on a day that com could well have won the race if being handily placed. Donnacha won easily on nelson by making sure the track bias didn’t influence the race and as for sir Jon Lavery.
    I hope there were words said after the racing as in any other set up heads could roll. Infuriating when the same thing happened the previous year. Sjl and com could both have won and now Aiden is scratching about to get suitable races for them. I’m a massive ballydoyle fan but wish Aiden was left to choose where each horse runs and decided the jockeys. They are losing races they should win by having too many runners in big races. Rant finished.

    #1318093

    yeats
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    • Total Posts 2783

    Thought it was a poor one today, too much of a shoutfest between McCririck & Kelleway, didn’t make for good viewing. Felt sorry for McGrath stuck in the middle with Big Macs arm waving in front of his face a lot.
    If Chapman had been in the chair that would have been 3 raving looneys although him and Thomas scoring points of each other the whole programme last week was poor fare too.

    I didn’t understand Kelleways argument that female jockeys should get an allowance here because there is a shortage of staff. She said herself that the vast majority of staff both in the stables and racing schools are female so doesn’t that contradict her argument?

    There were some good points about 48 hour decs and about the lack of transparency regarding how much they make for British racing compared to how much it is losing from all the non runners etc.

    Rather being a huge boost for punters as it was universally described I would suggest that 48 hour decs at Cheltenham will make absolutely no difference to 95% of punters.

    #1318098
    cormack15
    cormack15
    Keymaster
    • Total Posts 9962

    I enjoyed Muscat talking about how often jockeys ride ‘for luck’ (he mentioned Moore as I recall). It was interesting and I’ve been thinking about that comment while watching races the last couple of weeks.

    I think bettors underestimate the role of luck in race-riding. It is an inevitable factor, especially in bigger fields and on certain courses. I suppose it is one of the key things that drive the unpredictability.

    In terms of factoring it into betting I guess estimating the likelihood your selection will be ridden ‘for luck’ (racng style, jockey, track, conditions, racing style of other runners, draw, etc) is something one could build into confidence levels in a bet or factor into one’s assessment of what price a horse should be but a very tricky topic to get scientific about I’d say.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by cormack15 cormack15.
    #1318124

    mickeyjp
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    • Total Posts 507

    Part of the art of betting is envisaging how races would be run and betting accordingly. The leger was a classic example where if the field wanted capri beaten then surely doyle should have kicked on 3 furlongs from home. I didn’t think he would hence capri was one of my most confident tips in a long time as it was clearly the best horse before and after the race. Muscat is the class act of the show especially with his breeding knowledge. Putting kelleway and big Mac together was silly in the extreme as you know they will shout each other down. Best panel is muscat,cook and indeed Mac as he is still very good entertainment as he does talk a lot of sense apart from market forces should decide except when it comes to building houses on newmarket. Can’t have it both ways. Welcome to the common man’s world Mac. The forum is my fav racing show so annoyed when it gets spoiled by having incompatible guests. BTW don’t whats happened to Thomas as he used to be really good but just seems to be argumentative for the sake of it.

    #1318128
    Degaussed
    Degaussed
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    • Total Posts 217

    I cannot abide ‘Big Mac’. He’s rude, shouts nonsense, doesn’t seem to be listening half the time and adds nothing to the show. His ‘stats’ regarding St. Leger winners today were atrocious, arguing that Capri shouldn’t go because St Leger winners have a poor record in the Arc. No filly has ever won the Oaks and the Arc in the same season, so I guess Enable shouldn’t go? I think I’m at the point whereby if I see him on the show, I just won’t watch.

    #1318133

    mickeyjp
    Participant
    • Total Posts 507

    I know Mac is not to everyones taste and his stats are totally irrelevant the vast majority of the time as the way horses are campaigned now is massively different now hence many classic winners dont run in the back end group ones for 2yos making the stats irrelevant. I do find him entertaining as I do matt and if you can look past his shouting and going on about the whip he does make some very good points. I think at times he plays up to the character people think he is which is a pity as he is quite shrewd as he should be given his bookie knowledge.

    #1318183
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    • Total Posts 21907

    I know Mac is not to everyones taste and his stats are totally irrelevant the vast majority of the time as the way horses are campaigned now is massively different now hence many classic winners dont run in the back end group ones for 2yos making the stats irrelevant. I do find him entertaining as I do matt and if you can look past his shouting and going on about the whip he does make some very good points. I think at times he plays up to the character people think he is which is a pity as he is quite shrewd as he should be given his bookie knowledge.

    Big Mac makes some good points, but far and few between. Stats are irrelevent, usually taking in to account only numbers and not percenteages – misleading in the extreme. Self-promoting and am convinced a lot of views he can’t really believe himself. Might have market knowledge but that doesn’t stop him playing up to mug punter’s grievences – “Oooh look at me, I’m the punter’s pal”. Views on the whip are stupid and Shouts down/over anyone who disagrees with him. That’s not entertainment.

    value is everything
    #1318190
    LostSoldier3
    LostSoldier3
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    • Total Posts 1327

    Agree with the comments about Mac but there seems to be a dire shortage of people who are:

    a. good in front of the camera
    b. at least somewhat knowledgeable about racing/betting

    Hence why Big Mac, Tony Calvin, ‘Timeform Jim’ and all manner of rubber-faced irritants got/get so much airtime. I’m determined to check out more podcasts in the next few months – maybe there are some great gonzo racing experts out there with microphones in their bedrooms.

    #1318201

    Slowly Away
    Participant
    • Total Posts 392

    I do think the show is much better when Matt is presenting ……… Sean is next best, Kelly, Catt and Sir Bob are a bit useless

    I can take or leave Big Mac but he’s OK most weeks

    McGrath has an annoying habit of not speaking when you expect him to as though someone should give him a nudge to start him off !

    I like the ‘banter’ between Matt and Andrew Thornton

    The young irisn guy who’s name I can’t remember is pretty good on racing and races, John Berry and Muscat know their onions

    In in all it must be a pretty good show because I never miss it !

    #1318205

    wordfromthewise
    Participant
    • Total Posts 409

    Kelleway and McCririck shouldn’t appear together because the overall impression given is too low rent.

    Kelleway is unable to make any of her many opinions sound well thought out or popular to an even worse degree than Big Mac and that takes some doing.

    Dullards like Chris McGrath are the other extreme and should also be avoided until they can show at least a modicum of broadcasting ability.

    #1318212
    Degaussed
    Degaussed
    Participant
    • Total Posts 217

    Agree with the comments about Mac but there seems to be a dire shortage of people who are:

    a. good in front of the camera
    b. at least somewhat knowledgeable about racing/betting

    Hence why Big Mac, Tony Calvin, ‘Timeform Jim’ and all manner of rubber-faced irritants got/get so much airtime. I’m determined to check out more podcasts in the next few months – maybe there are some great gonzo racing experts out there with microphones in their bedrooms.

    Kevin Blake needs to be on the show more. He ticks all the boxes.

    Would love to know about more racing podcasts. The only one I listen to is The Final Furlong, which is great.

    #1318259

    Slowly Away
    Participant
    • Total Posts 392

    ‘Kevin Blake’ is the young Irish chap I referred to ………. he’s very good !

    #1318276
    Running Rein
    Running Rein
    Participant
    • Total Posts 142

    John McCririck diminishes my enjoyment of everything he is involved in.
    I like the Sunday Forum as the format should be a winner…and it works for me timing wise on a Sunday but if JM is on I am out. I occasionally try to overcome my dislike (as per Sunday for 15 minutes but I usually can’t stand it much longer).
    McCririck routinely confuses his opinions for facts.
    Interjects with unsolicited political views
    Pulls faces and shouts out of context.
    Frankly he is indulged and is deep down (actually not that deep) a bully.

    And on the above he has built a TV career.

    He seemed keen that Cracksman should miss the Arc this year…fair enough if you think his form isn’t strong enough (an argument can certainly be made on that score). But that wasn’t his contention and to suggest that an in form 3yo colt should wait till he is a 4yo colt to strengthen his Arc prospects is a very shaky one.
    He was strangely silent on the stats that illuminate a 4yo colt’s statistical chances.

    #1318283
    Gladiateur
    Gladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 909

    Agree with the comments about Mac but there seems to be a dire shortage of people who are:

    a. good in front of the camera
    b. at least somewhat knowledgeable about racing/betting

    How many people are given the chance?

    I’m sure that there are plenty of people on podcasts, at racecourses, even on internet forums who could do a better job than the current dire lot but they simply never get the opportunity.

    I emailed ATR a year or so ago suggesting that they should open up one of the spots on The Sunday Forum to a viewer (randomly chosen after email applications; obviously some degree of vetting required, so that alcoholics/drug abusers/other nutcases don’t get on… although, come to think of it, that would disqualify at least half of those already on racing gravy train), but I didn’t receive any response.

    #1318320

    mickeyjp
    Participant
    • Total Posts 507

    There are plenty of podcasts like the racing post and William hill but the final furlong is by far the best. Kevin Blake is very astute as is Gary obrien and they always have a good laugh while getting the points across. Glad to see so many enjoy the forum as much as I do and I do agree that there isn’t enough people who are media savvy. Maybe they should go to the same media training the jockeys get.

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