305 Lingers SPs

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This topic contains 23 replies, has 1 voice, and was last updated by  Racing Daily 11 years, 8 months ago.

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  • #909

    Racing Daily
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1448

    Is it me, or is it standard practice to shave 6pts off the first, second and third combined nowadays?

    Going in the stalls …

    1 King Orchisios 10-1<br>2 Woodnook 12-1<br>3 Qadar 12-1

    and SP …

    1 King Orchisios 8-1<br>2 Woodnook 10-1<br>3 Qadar 10-1

    Seems pretty rank to me.  Did a big player wade in with a cartload of money for the whole field bar the 1/3 fav, one minute before the off?<br>**sarcasm**

    #40670
    FlatSeasonLover
    FlatSeasonLover
    Member
    • Total Posts 2203

    Are you talking to me?

    Its standard practice under the new SP regulation yes.

    (Edited by FlatSeasonLover at 1:42 am on Feb. 25, 2007)

    #40672

    Anonymous
    • Total Posts 18146

    RD<br>It’s all part of the cosy relationship between on and off course bookmakers they seem to have in that part of the country, where I of the big 3 comes in late and the course bookies, wide-eyed and innocent as they are, throw their hands up in the air and chant<br> "What me guv – never had time to change the others?";) <br>They excelled themselves yesterday though, apart from ensuring a cosy 3% per runner in this race, they actually  managed to shorten every single runner in from its opening price, a feat Dick Turpin would have bowed down before.

    <br>(from Sporting Life returns):<br><br>King Orchisios (IRE)  9-0  N Callan  K A Ryan  4 8/1  <br>  made all, led, ridden 2f out, hard pressed inside final furlong, held on, all out opened 9/1 touched 10/1  <br>2  8 hd Woodnook  8-9  J F Egan  J A R Toller  4 10/1  <br>  went right start, held up towards rear, headway over 1f out, stayed on well inside final furlong, took 2nd post and gaining on winner opened 12/1  <br>3  1 s.h Qadar (IRE)  9-0  I Mongan  N P Littmoden  5 10/1  <br>  took keen hold, tracked leaders, chased winner over 2f out, every chance over 1f out, stayed on to press winner inside final furlong, lost 2nd post opened 12/1 touched 14/1  <br>4  4 ½ Red Cape (FR)  9-0  B Doyle  Jane Chapple-Hyam  4 12/1  <br>  took keen hold, in touch, ridden and slightly outpaced over 1f out, stayed on inside final furlong, not reach leaders opened 16/1  <br>5  2 ¾ Areyoutalkingtome  9-0  E Ahern  C A Cyzer  4 1/3 f <br>  steadied start, held up, chased leaders when hampered over 2f out, effort and not clear run inside final furlong, unable to challenge, eased near finish opened 4/11 touched 2/5 £800-£2000 £909-£2500 £400-£1100 (x2)  <br> 6  7 7 Angus Newz  8-12  S W Kelly  M Quinn  4 16/1  <br>  prominent on outer, chased leaders and wide straight 2f out, weakened over 1f out opened 20/1 touched 33/1  <br>7  3 1 Holbien (IRE)  9-0  D M Grant  L Roche  4 25/1  <br>  tracked winner, ridden and lost 2nd over 2f out, edged left, weakened over 1f out opened 50/1 touched 66/1  <br>8  6 ¾ Golden Asha  8-9  M L Thomas  G G Margarson  5 33/1  <br>  always rear, outpaced final 2f opened 40/1 touched 66/1  

    Stinks dunnit?<br>Sooner they put themselves out of business, the better.<br>

    (Edited by reet hard at 3:30 am on Feb. 25, 2007)

    #40674
    FlatSeasonLover
    FlatSeasonLover
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    • Total Posts 2203

    It’s hardly the first time though is it? Even the WBX had better prices!:o

    #40676
    rory
    rory
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    • Total Posts 2800

    It’s getting a tiny bit embarrassing now, and I guess it’s up to SP punters to vote with their feet, except SP punters by definition are happy to be led like lambs to the slaughter.

    #40678
    non vintage
    non vintage
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    • Total Posts 1315

    http://www.sportinglife.com/racing/live … _1505.html

    This link will work until next Saturday, and clearly illustrates the Dick Turpin factor. I am not usually bothered but I think this (a near 125% book on a 8-runner Listed race) is pretty embarrassing and the current situation will be damaging for the sport in the medium to long term.

    What’s the %overround at Sprint Valley btw?

    #40679

    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3068

    <br>Whilst I agree the SP is a disgrace, there’s absolutely no point in using a comparison with the last show because the two things are totally different.

    The shows are sent by a separate team of people monitoring a different group of bookies and not using the same method to calculate the price.

    AP

    #40680

    Colin Little
    Member
    • Total Posts 343

    I would argue that if there was ever a justified case for on course books betting to 125-130%, it would be on a race like this (especially if they were taking each way bets). They must have taken a fair bit for the 2nd/3rd favs to place against the 1/3 fav. I’m guessing like you that it was last minute money from the offices, which sort of weakens my point, but I think it’s still valid.

    Even at the final returned SP prices, punters who backed each way at SP, still got a better return on the place portion of their bet than they would have betting at Tote place odds.

    This was a real oppourtunity for people in favour of the new SP return system to explain why they need to take account of bookmakers that take each way bets…but the off course firms may have ruined it by shortening the e/w horses up last minute.

    You get the feeling that even if they were betting to, say 130%, on course, the off-course firms would have still tried to shorten up the live e/w horses even further, maybe it’s just instinct with them.

    #40682
    non vintage
    non vintage
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    • Total Posts 1315

    Agreed about last shows and the different processes by which they are arrived at, but the live show records provide a graphical guideline of ‘how the market went’…

    #40683

    barry dennis
    Member
    • Total Posts 410

    repeat, hopefully for the last time, as AP says,  SIS provide shows to 8,300 betting shops,  they do not decide sp’s, that is done by a sample of bookmakers, in yesterdays case, 6, of which 3 were lads hills and bd, we were the only 3 offering ew terms,

    the win book shows were 24% overbroke on place terms,

    I reduce all runners apart from fav so that place book is exactly 100%, ie no profit,

    what do you suggest I bet 24% overbroke to accommodate ew thieves, or even force betting shops to do the same.

    simple answer change place terms to tote or betting exchange prices on such races.  fancy that??

    #40684

    Colin Little
    Member
    • Total Posts 343

    The shows are sent by a separate team of people monitoring a different group of bookies and not using the same method to calculate the price.

    <br>Are we saying that the people who send the shows are using different criteria & sources to those who return the SP’s??

    If that’s the case no wonder the SP returns are sometimes unpredicatable. I was under the impression that betting shows from a course were complied in the same way as SP’s, if they are not, it’s surely could be very misleading to the punter.

    #40686

    davidbrady
    Member
    • Total Posts 4104

    Quote: from barry dennis on 10:23 am on Feb. 25, 2007[br]simple answer change place terms to tote or betting exchange prices on such races.  fancy that??

    Actually yes. Quote separate prices for a win and place. That way win only punters are getting a decent enough price on their runners. And no EW betting on course.

    #40688
    non vintage
    non vintage
    Member
    • Total Posts 1315

    I think there probably should be separate win and place markets, although this would hammer consumer confidence for a while and would obviously work both ways (there are plenty of 3/1 the field 14+ runner maidens during the flat season).

    Definitely the each-way terms contributed towards the overround yesterday – no arguments there.

    Was this a worse result (for bookmakers) because the favourite didn’t win (thus landing the win part of some of the e/w action)?

    #40689

    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3068

    Quote: from Colin Little

    Are we saying that the people who send the shows are using different criteria & sources to those who return the SP’s??

    Colin,

    Well I don’t know how I could put it any more clearly – the answer to your question is yes.

    AP

    #40690

    Colin Little
    Member
    • Total Posts 343

    Thank you for your frank & slightly, er, patronising reply. I’m not sure if I believed it the first time! You will have to forgive me, I’m not up with all the racing industry ways 😉

    I stand by my comments, surley producing shows & returns in different ways is, inconsistant, produces a lack of continuity, as well as being confusing & potentially misleading for punters following the market ?

    I’m actually quite shocked by it.

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