2000 Guineas 2017

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This topic contains 376 replies, has 47 voices, and was last updated by stevecaution stevecaution 4 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #1293666

    Sunspangled
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    Lancaster Bomber was Churchill’s pacemaker in the three races up to and including the Dewhurst Stakes, so was never given a chance to run on his own merit. His performance in battling on to take second place in the Dewhurst surprised them (though he was running on the best ground) and he did run very well on firm in the US, so the surface in Meydan may suit him well. He may not be a typical War Front in that he has battling qualities, and he’s a half brother to Excelebration who improved markedly from two to three. Ballydoyle are taking an usually large team of 9 horses to Dubai, difficult to know whether it is a statement of intent or whether they are prepping horses for other targets. So it’s a game of watch and see. Thunder Snow is the likelier winner on Saturday, because he has had a prep and is proven on the surface, and we can be sure that he will be primed to run to his best.

    #1293668
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 7048

    Looking back at Daddy Long Legs. He ran in the Breeders Cup Juvenile but was tailed off. I remember at the time thinking that he was out of the race so soon that he came home in his own time and may not have done himself much harm.

    That looked sound enough thinking when he came out and won the UAE Derby but, boy did it work out awfully for him after that. The fact that Daddy Long Legs had run on Dirt at the Breeders Cup was another reason I was hopeful that he might not be too badly affected by the run. His stable mate Wrote ran in the Turf version and won it but could manage only 3rd to Daddy Long Legs when favourite for the UAE Derby. His form after that tailed off, never winning again and becoming another Breeders Juvenile Turf winner to flop the next season.

    Daddy Long Legs himself next ran in the Kentucky Derby, where he broke well but lost his position after half a mile and was tailed off and pulled up. A dismal effort there was followed by a decent 4th to Power in the Irish 2000 Guineas but after that his career simply went down the pan, a shadow of the horse who had looked promising.

    Daddy Long Legs was by Scat Daddy, the sire of Caravaggio and like War Front, these US sires have not been training on at 3yo the way you would hope for. This year should tell us more but with Scat Daddy passing away it won’t be of use for the future from his side.

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1293673

    Sunspangled
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    I’m not sure that there is an issue with Scat Daddy’s progeny training on. Last year he had 17 black type winners, 13 of whom were 3yo+ (and the remaining 4 2yo winners still have a chance to prove themselves as 3yo+). No Nay Never failed to win the BC Turf Sprint by just 1/2L. Acapulco is now in training with Aidan O’Brien, so they must have hopes for her as a 4yo. Daddy Long Legs did train on to perform well in the early part of his 3yo season, whatever may have happened to him subsequently. Caravaggio and Lady Aurelia have yet to run as 3yos. That accounts for all the Scat Daddies of note this side of the pond.
    Regarding Caravaggio and the 2000 Guineas, I see a Scat Daddy colt out of a Holy Bull mare (same breeding as Caravaggio) won a stakes race over a mile at the weekend having made his debut over 5f last August. So, can be done!

    #1293674

    Sunspangled
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    Saying that, I don’t see them running Caravaggio in the 2000 Guineas, I think they will run Churchill and War Decree, with Cliffs of Moher running in the French Guineas and Caravaggio in the Commonwealth Cup.

    #1293676
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 7048

    I’m not sure that there is an issue with Scat Daddy’s progeny training on. Last year he had 17 black type winners, 13 of whom were 3yo+ (and the remaining 4 2yo winners still have a chance to prove themselves as 3yo+). No Nay Never failed to win the BC Turf Sprint by just 1/2L. Acapulco is now in training with Aidan O’Brien, so they must have hopes for her as a 4yo. Daddy Long Legs did train on to perform well in the early part of his 3yo season, whatever may have happened to him subsequently. Caravaggio and Lady Aurelia have yet to run as 3yos. That accounts for all the Scat Daddies of note this side of the pond.
    Regarding Caravaggio and the 2000 Guineas, I see a Scat Daddy colt out of a Holy Bull mare (same breeding as Caravaggio) won a stakes race over a mile at the weekend having made his debut over 5f last August. So, can be done!

    Each to their own beliefs, I am going against them regarding UK Classics, as I have done successfully up to now,

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1293681
    TheGun
    TheGun
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    • Total Posts 151

    Saying that, I don’t see them running Caravaggio in the 2000 Guineas, I think they will run Churchill and War Decree, with Cliffs of Moher running in the French Guineas and Caravaggio in the Commonwealth Cup.

    I’d say this is how it likely pans out. I for one hope Caravaggio does train on as he has the potential to be one of the stars of the season.

    #1293685

    Sunspangled
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    • Total Posts 452

    I’m not sure that there is an issue with Scat Daddy’s progeny training on. Last year he had 17 black type winners, 13 of whom were 3yo+ (and the remaining 4 2yo winners still have a chance to prove themselves as 3yo+). No Nay Never failed to win the BC Turf Sprint by just 1/2L. Acapulco is now in training with Aidan O’Brien, so they must have hopes for her as a 4yo. Daddy Long Legs did train on to perform well in the early part of his 3yo season, whatever may have happened to him subsequently. Caravaggio and Lady Aurelia have yet to run as 3yos. That accounts for all the Scat Daddies of note this side of the pond.
    Regarding Caravaggio and the 2000 Guineas, I see a Scat Daddy colt out of a Holy Bull mare (same breeding as Caravaggio) won a stakes race over a mile at the weekend having made his debut over 5f last August. So, can be done!

    Each to their own beliefs, I am going against them regarding UK Classics, as I have done successfully up to now,

    I didn’t realise a Scat Daddy had run in a UK classic? What have I missed?

    #1293693

    Sunspangled
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    • Total Posts 452

    Saying that, I don’t see them running Caravaggio in the 2000 Guineas, I think they will run Churchill and War Decree, with Cliffs of Moher running in the French Guineas and Caravaggio in the Commonwealth Cup.

    I’d say this is how it likely pans out. I for one hope Caravaggio does train on as he has the potential to be one of the stars of the season.

    Agree, and the Commonwealth Cup is a prestigious enough target in itself.

    #1293936
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 7048

    I’m not sure that there is an issue with Scat Daddy’s progeny training on. Last year he had 17 black type winners, 13 of whom were 3yo+ (and the remaining 4 2yo winners still have a chance to prove themselves as 3yo+). No Nay Never failed to win the BC Turf Sprint by just 1/2L. Acapulco is now in training with Aidan O’Brien, so they must have hopes for her as a 4yo. Daddy Long Legs did train on to perform well in the early part of his 3yo season, whatever may have happened to him subsequently. Caravaggio and Lady Aurelia have yet to run as 3yos. That accounts for all the Scat Daddies of note this side of the pond.
    Regarding Caravaggio and the 2000 Guineas, I see a Scat Daddy colt out of a Holy Bull mare (same breeding as Caravaggio) won a stakes race over a mile at the weekend having made his debut over 5f last August. So, can be done!

    Each to their own beliefs, I am going against them regarding UK Classics, as I have done successfully up to now,

    I didn’t realise a Scat Daddy had run in a UK classic? What have I missed?

    Oh dear, the dreaded last resort of the lazy forumite. SARCASM

    Only giving my opinions here. Don’t like them? Move on! Simple B-)

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1293941

    Sunspangled
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    • Total Posts 452

    Just pointing where your stated belief was incorrect :negative: I’m sorry (not) if that hurt. As always, others are entitled to their opinions, and you don’t have to respond. And back to calling people names again and getting personal, and sarcastic youself. Tut tut.

    #1293945

    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 452

    But rather than spoil the forum for others, I’m sure I can ignore you if you can ignore me :bye:

    #1293946
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 7048

    But rather than spoil the forum for others, I’m sure I can ignore you if you can ignore me :bye:

    Just pointing where your stated belief was incorrect

    Where?

    My belief is that Caravaggio will not win the 2000 Guineas and that he is poor value for the Commonwealth Cup.

    That will not be known until the races are run. It’s best to wait for that to happen before shouting the odds.

    We had Douglas MacArthur last season. I did not feel he was impressive in his maiden but he went favourite for the Derby. I opposed him next time with Landfall at 20/1 and despite the Irish commentators hyping Douglas MacArthur up and stating that “Aiden says he’s got an engine”, we all watched as the unheralded Landfall tore him a new ass.

    That’s the ultimate pay off in this game, going against a hotpot put there by suicidal lemmings and lifting the cash to show that you were correct in your opinion.

    Some people had the good grace to applaud my thinking, but there will always be petty jealousies on any forum. I’ll settle for the reverberating echo of the last laugh and the cash in pocket :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1293947
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7048

    Lancaster Bomber seems quite weak in the betting for the UAE Derby. He is out to 9/1 with several firms.

    I was a bit surprised that Timeform don’t rate Thunder Snow as worth a place in their 1-2-3 race preview. They cite his bad draw in box 13 as making life tough for the favourite.

    What's all the fuss about Estimate on the Racing Legends Stamps?

    There's always been a second rate Mare on them anyway 😉

    #1293949
    Nathan Hughes
    Nathan Hughes
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    • Total Posts 17310

    the dreaded last resort of the lazy forumite. SARCASM

    I don’t know Steve, I like to get in an early blow now and again and use sarcasm as a first resort :whistle:

    Don't Eat The Pie and Don't Buy The S*n
    #1293962

    Sunspangled
    Participant
    • Total Posts 452

    But rather than spoil the forum for others, I’m sure I can ignore you if you can ignore me :bye:

    Just pointing where your stated belief was incorrect

    Where?

    My belief is that Caravaggio will not win the 2000 Guineas and that he is poor value for the Commonwealth Cup.

    That will not be known until the races are run. It’s best to wait for that to happen before shouting the odds.

    We had Douglas MacArthur last season. I did not feel he was impressive in his maiden but he went favourite for the Derby. I opposed him next time with Landfall at 20/1 and despite the Irish commentators hyping Douglas MacArthur up and stating that “Aiden says he’s got an engine”, we all watched as the unheralded Landfall tore him a new ass.

    That’s the ultimate pay off in this game, going against a hotpot put there by suicidal lemmings and lifting the cash to show that you were correct in your opinion.

    Some people had the good grace to applaud my thinking, but there will always be petty jealousies on any forum. I’ll settle for the reverberating echo of the last laugh and the cash in pocket :yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

    Just to clarify a point, your ‘belief’ that was incorrect was that you had successfully gone against Scat Daddies in the UK classics, and I was merely pointing out that none had ever run in the UK classics. None have ever been seriously considered for a UK classic, we are talking about a pool of three Scat Daddies here, Acapulco, No Nay Never and Daddy Long Legs.

    Again, with the personal attacks, I’m not jealous of anyone. But I’m not into mindlessly applauding anyone either. I very rarely bet, I enjoy the horses and the horse racing for what they are, beautiful animals and a great sport.

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